Give the Support Some Love!

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Chodenelius

Junior Member

01-17-2013

Hello, I am going to be going into detail a little about the support role. In case anyone doesn't already know, the support role is the champ that tags along with the adc in bot lane. Early game the supports role is to keep the adc safe and possibly net them some early kills. During this time, the support must give all farm to the adc and it is also discouraged that they take any kills for themselves. Mid game, the support mainly turns into the teams ward b!tch and also gives aid wherever he can, still not spending any time to farm for himself. Finally by late game, the support has to spend what little money they have gained on lots of both sight and vision wards, possibly an oracles and as many aura items they can afford.

Now, when you play solo que, what is the one role almost no one wants to play that usually someone ends up getting forced into doing? You probably said support. Why is this?

First off, if you had to measure numbers, the support has the least impact on the game as far as the other roles go. Yes, the support is important and a good one can help a team win, but can a support carry a team to victory? Sadly, the answer is always no. No matter how well a support plays, they will always be reliant on their team to ultimately finish the game.

Second, is the style of play the support usually falls into. During all stages of the game, the support class is greatly discouraged from doing any farming causing many supports to simply stand in a bush while the adc farms away. This is not fun. Adding to this, supports can never feel powerful because they never have any gold to buy items with and the little gold they do get is spent toward aura items and wards. Also not fun.

Finally, I think we can all agree that supports are also the most under appreciated role on any team. How many pro support players do you know? I bet not many at all. This is because they are easy to overlook because they don't do anything flashy and rarely have kills.

So what can we do to stop this negligence toward the support role? I had one idea that I noticed from another game very very similar to lol. Now no one hate me, but its dota. Now what lol does that dota does not is that no ability in dota is ever able to do more damage other then by leveling it up. Simply put, there is no such thing as AP, only AD. Well this makes all abilities and especially spell casters under powered right? Quite wrong actually. In dota, spell casters, INCLUDING LANE SUPPORTS, have abilities that can reach their full potential very early in the game meaning that they are terrifying in the early game. This allows supports to both buy their wards and aura items, but still have a huge presence in the laning phase.

Now how could this affect league? An idea I thought would be that support champs could have great base stats on their abilities, but scale horribly with AP. This would sort of give the same effect as dota. Early game, supports could really make a difference with their abilities, but by late game their abilities will have petered off and they will fall into a similar role they are in now.

Thoughts? Comments? Concerns? Any and all of the above? I am really just trying to think of a way to make supports feel more loved and beneficial to the team, other then maybe one ok ult and a map full of wards. I am not saying this would for sure fix it and should be implemented, but am just throwing it out there. If anyone else has any suggestions for the support, feel free to post them here and maybe we can get a thread going to make supports a more fun role. Thanks for reading


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Silkdawn

Senior Member

01-17-2013

I hear you, but how the support is handled in this game is actually entirely a player construct.

Someone found out that giving the Carry some room to get money was a good idea, the idea became a test and the test became successful in those matches. Refinement of that role ensued to what we see today as a support. HOWEVER, this is still just something we players have accepted as the norm.

In my "humble" opinion a support would have a much bigger impact if they wasnt gimped as they are by player mechanics that are accepted by most. So why havent this been done so much? Because most support players are silent, humble and dont want confrontation. Wheres the Carry is a loudmouth, often a jerk and loves his epeen. Just human nature to let the Carry have his way...

EDIT: Im stereotyping it of course, but check it yourself in matches and you see the statistics are usually true to what I was saying about supports and carries.


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Chodenelius

Junior Member

01-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silkdawn View Post
I hear you, but how the support is handled in this game is actually entirely a player construct.

Someone found out that giving the Carry some room to get money was a good idea, the idea became a test and the test became successful in those matches. Refinement of that role ensued to what we see today as a support. HOWEVER, this is still just something we players have accepted as the norm.

In my "humble" opinion a support would have a much bigger impact if they wasnt gimped as they are by player mechanics that are accepted by most. So why havent this been done so much? Because most support players are silent, humble and dont want confrontation. Wheres the Carry is a loudmouth, often a jerk and loves his epeen. Just human nature to let the Carry have his way...

EDIT: Im stereotyping it of course, but check it yourself in matches and you see the statistics are usually true to what I was saying about supports and carries.
I do understand what you are saying, the support class is just what has become accepted. I remember the good old days were a jungler was optional and every lane was just two random champs except for mid :P

However, the way the map is made, there is only enough farm for 4 champions. There is top, mid, bot, and the jungle. Unless there is one of these 4 options being farmed by two players, one of the champions has to sacrifice on CS, it only makes sense.

That's why I am just suggesting that one of the champs is given some early power that isnt item dependent, so he can at least make a difference at some point in the game and not just be the adc's little helper the entire game.


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EnderDDT

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Senior Member

01-18-2013

Currently good supports already deal "good damage" with their abilities simply by leveling up, that is one of the hallmarks of a good support: that they can still make an impact early game without needing farm. The fact that they do have ratios means that they can continue to make an impact late game without being horribly overpowered early-game. If ap ratios were removed or functionally eliminated than in order for spells to do relevant late-game damage they would have to deal enough damage to slaughter any character who had not bought defense first during the early game. That is a lot less fun for a lot more characters in a lot more positions than what we have now.

In addition most current supports are characters who can "catch up" with farm later either through the use of a spell that clears waves well or through gaining multiple assists, this allows them to take little/no CS early and still buy items. These characters are often ones that fit into another role later in the game, such as a tank or secondary damage dealer. This change would force characters into a role such that you could not have either a good mid/support or top/support use of each character in question, the numbers would dictate where they would be forced to be put.

The fact that the two roles that are often the most important toward having a balanced team, support and tank, also have the least impact on the games outcome so long as they are filled; that is a real issue that probably needs fixing. What to do to fix this problem, that is anyone's guess. With tanks the solution of "make them able to carry if they get fed enough" has been nerfed into the ground with the defensive nerfs (since RIOT seems to want KILL.KILL.KILL.KILL in their games; jugernaughts of damage rather than jugernaughts of stamina) so that role has been further marginalized to the point where even lacking multiple tanky characters can be a liability (despite the fact that the multiple tanky characters still remain unable to carry the game by themselves). If this is the case with tanks, which are easier to define and were at one time closer to being singularly relevant, as opposed to being only relevant as a damage multiplier for someone else, than what chance do supports have for finding a easy solution? I don't expect the support role to get any better anytime soon.


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MoonLiteNite

Member

01-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodnelius View Post
but can a support carry a team to victory? Sadly, the answer is always no.
Actually, the answer is YES.

There are players who stream 1900+ ELO games and they main support.
So yeah they impact the game a LOT, and they can carry. "Carry" doesn't mean "most kills", it means "influences the game the most", and a good player, a good support can easily do that.
Leona, Taric, Blitz, Ali, are HUGE supports that can easily carry a game.

Maybe at lower elo people don't wanna support, but i find in my games, just at 1450, that in around half the games, someone's actually wants support.
And if i am in duo que, my friend or I take support

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodnelius View Post
causing many supports to simply stand in a bush while the adc farms away
Well then those supports are retarded. Supports need to be present and make the other ADC and support be afraid, NOT hiding in a bush.


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Tang Bohu

Recruiter

01-18-2013

Quote:
Leona, Taric, Blitz, Ali, are HUGE supports that can easily carry a game
It's funny because only one of those were actually advertised as a support, and that one was truly outrageous.

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Hey, OP... Don't hate me for this.... But DoTA really isn't so much "similar" to this as much as "what this entire game was based off of"

The creators of DoTA got in a disagreement and split, one making LoL, the other making DoTA2.

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Riot tried to give the supports a way to get a lil more item versatility with the shop overhaul in the s3 update, but it only worked to nominal success. What it basically did was made it harder for junglers to be efficient(they actually had to be decently disciplined about consistently farming jungle) and made supports at all levels start warding by giving the sightstone item in the update.

While I do not think the job is completely finished by any means, I sincerely thank riot for making support not outright suck as much. For example, there was a tourney match in season 2 where a Janna had 2 wards, a regrowth pendant, and level 1 boots at 50 minutes into the game.
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Personal Problems: I'd like to think I'm not much on qq-ing in the forums, but a major issue many have with playing support is that most of the playerbase is mentally retarded. I can't say how many times I have had to deal with some jackass expecting me to tank all the other teams damage when I'm playing support.....

"You're a tank" a tank with 0cs and no decent items...
"Supports build aura items scrub, thos r tanky" You're cho'gath you tank
"I played mid tho, i cant" same difference ( -____-)


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Chodenelius

Junior Member

01-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonLiteNite View Post
Actually, the answer is YES.

There are players who stream 1900+ ELO games and they main support.
So yeah they impact the game a LOT, and they can carry. "Carry" doesn't mean "most kills", it means "influences the game the most", and a good player, a good support can easily do that.
Leona, Taric, Blitz, Ali, are HUGE supports that can easily carry a game.

Maybe at lower elo people don't wanna support, but i find in my games, just at 1450, that in around half the games, someone's actually wants support.
And if i am in duo que, my friend or I take support


Well then those supports are retarded. Supports need to be present and make the other ADC and support be afraid, NOT hiding in a bush.
Unfortunetly I have never seen a support even some what carry a game either in my games or any pro game I have watched :/ Those supports can make a huge difference yes, but those champs you pointed out are CC champs and can greatly help in a teamfight, but ultimately they are 100% dependent on their teammates to dish out the damage. To everyone else, I understand that the support can do some ok damage early on with abilities, but I just wish that they could do more

DOTA and LOL are pretty much the same game :P yes, there are some big differences especially with difficulty and how the game punishes you for mistakes, but these two games are as close as any two get. I am just trying to take a page from DOTA's playbook with the fact that supports pretty much control the early game. Early game they have far more damage potential then carrys and it makes them fun to play.

That's really what I'm trying to get at is when your playing a support in DOTA, you feel much more important to the game and actually feel powerful especially early game. Also the fact that you can last hit your own creeps which really gives supports something to do, but I won't get into that


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Lyoublue

Member

01-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodnelius View Post
the support has the least impact on the game as far as the other roles go.
This kind of thinking is wrong and should be discouraged. A support can most certainly carry. I played a game yesterday as Janna where the enemy Katarina got dangeroulsly fed and I shut her down by rushing a bulwark and ulting her out of teamfights.


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Lyoublue

Member

01-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodnelius View Post
Those supports can make a huge difference yes, but those champs you pointed out are CC champs and can greatly help in a teamfight, but ultimately they are 100% dependent on their teammates to dish out the damage.
You could inversely argue that the damage dealers are 100% reliant in their team to peel/CC so they dont get instagibbed.

Also, I think last hitting is boring.


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Togekiss24

Senior Member

01-18-2013

If you are going afk in your brush while your carry farms, you are playing support wrong. You should be assisting your carry in zoning and if you can, put pressure on the other opponents. Blitzcrank, Alistar, and Leona have particular favor in that they can do that very well, and create many instances where their carries can net easy kills.

It's not a popular role because people play with the Call of Duty mindset, thinking that kills are everything in this game and they want to satisfy their egos. Support doesn't leave a lot of room for error, either, because if you or your carry constantly dies in lane, it's hard to come back as your gold income will be crippled.


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