Wits End needs a buff.

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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

01-28-2013

In it's current state it does leave something to be desired. IT has alright stats but only really good for champs wiht on hit effects.

THis is just one though on it but it could have a few changes
cost: 1900
attack speed: 35%
magic resist: 20 + 5 (stacks 3 times) MR
42 on hit magic damage

then make it combine with long sword and cloth armor
cost 3300 total 700 combine cost
20AD
50% attack speed
50 on hit magic damage
25 + 5 (stack 4 times) armor
20 + 5 (stack 4 times) MR

That is just my idea to make it a better option for more champs while not being to over the top.


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Titanomagnus

Senior Member

01-28-2013

It is completely piss-weak at higher levels especially against mages who have finalized some powerful AP items and have one or two abilities maximized.

It needs to scale with level OR needs to do at least two more beneficial things.

It could be upgraded twice- sort of like the new boot system, and it could add different stacking passives for a limited time during combat- each upgrade giving a different type of buff + the original buff.


But even so, that's completely undermining its original intent and purpose- unless I'm highly mistaken and you are only meant to use it early game- because late game, its very ditchable for Malady, which IMO is better to have in almost any case, because like I said, +20 MR during end-game is useless.

Stack it with Malady and maybe it has a use...otherwise, it feels under powered and unnecessary


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Irelia Bot

Senior Member

01-28-2013

There is one problem with thinking that stacking it with malady. Shen and Irelia are not champs to get a lot of AP.

Both are common buyers of Wit's and neither is known to get more then 50 ability power because wits is just a spike in an approaching wall. If it provided a little more use late game that is fine but if it gave 50% attack speed with 50 AD, 40+ on hit magic damage and some magic resist it would become a must buy on most ADC.

The best overall option is to make it have slightly less and cost a little less but have a build path that is reasonable for late game much like Hexdrinker/maw.


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Titanomagnus

Senior Member

01-29-2013

I don't care much what they do to it; I never use it anymore on any champ- simply not worth buying a crossbow for it.

I'd rather they deleted it and replaced it with something more useful OR cost-friendly at this point.

Or hell, bring back force of nature- there's already a thread about that...but yeah, that'd be nice.

Stupid Wit's End...


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Galgus

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xela Syab View Post
Hexdrinker outclasses the item in every respect, it's cheaper, builds from cheaper components, gives more durability against mages, and builds into a better item late game. As something thats just as-is it doesn't seem very viable. They made the item more expensive since it was cheap and was a great jungle option and they wanted Ionic Spark to be viable for some reason, however with the increase in health to the monsters in the jungle and the introduction of Maw of Malmortius the item is frankly outdated. Not asking for something op just some tweaking to make it viable, does almost the same magic damage as sunfire cape.
Hexdrinker vs Wits End really depends on how much a champion likes attack speed.

I'll repeat myself: champions who build one or two damage items before tanking up who can also use attack speed get good use out of the item because it fills the MR slot and helps with damage.

Its a fairly niche item, and it would be overpowered on champions it is already good on if buffed to appeal to a general audience of champions.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by phromic View Post
i agree kinda , i basically think it should be built like a malady . so 2 daggers and a null magic mantle
it would be more useful that way i think . honestly they both are in the same family that is feuding lol . one gives magic resist when u hit a target .the other takes away magic resist from the target you hit . both give you attacks speed and a on hit. so shouldn't they be built almost the same . the only difference i think they should have is the tome and mantle
I'm opposed to buffing the overall power of the item, but I wouldn't be against making it a bit less awkward to build.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanomagnus View Post
It is completely piss-weak at higher levels especially against mages who have finalized some powerful AP items and have one or two abilities maximized.

It needs to scale with level OR needs to do at least two more beneficial things.

It could be upgraded twice- sort of like the new boot system, and it could add different stacking passives for a limited time during combat- each upgrade giving a different type of buff + the original buff.


But even so, that's completely undermining its original intent and purpose- unless I'm highly mistaken and you are only meant to use it early game- because late game, its very ditchable for Malady, which IMO is better to have in almost any case, because like I said, +20 MR during end-game is useless.

Stack it with Malady and maybe it has a use...otherwise, it feels under powered and unnecessary
Does an item that also gives damage really need to give total protection against a fed mage?

Typically, champions that build it also invest in health such as a Frozen Mallet, which also helps against most mages.


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Xela Syab

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulbladez View Post
In it's current state it does leave something to be desired. IT has alright stats but only really good for champs wiht on hit effects.

THis is just one though on it but it could have a few changes
cost: 1900
attack speed: 35%
magic resist: 20 + 5 (stacks 3 times) MR
42 on hit magic damage

then make it combine with long sword and cloth armor
cost 3300 total 700 combine cost
20AD
50% attack speed
50 on hit magic damage
25 + 5 (stack 4 times) armor
20 + 5 (stack 4 times) MR

That is just my idea to make it a better option for more champs while not being to over the top.
Like your idea but how about the other way around. It was a really great jungle item for champs like Shyvanna and Mundo so why not build it with Madred's Razors?

Madred's Razors 700g + Null Magic Mantel 400g + Recurve Bow 950g + 700g
Wit's End 2350g
+ 40% attack speed
+20 Magic Resist
+25 Armor
UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks deal 42 bonus magic damage on hit.
UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks grant +4 Magic Resist and Armor for 5 seconds on hit (stacks up to 4 times).
UNIQUE Passive - Maim: Basic attacks against minions and monsters have a 25% chance to deal 300 bonus magic damage on hit.
UNIQUE Passive - Rend: Basic attacks deal 10 bonus true damage to monsters on hit.
(Unique Passives with the same name don't stack.)

Does not seem op since you don't really get anything new in the item and you're trading it for Wriggles which has lifesteal and ward. Just gives alot of unique passive procs to minions and minor stat upgrades.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xela Syab View Post
Like your idea but how about the other way around. It was a really great jungle item for champs like Shyvanna and Mundo so why not build it with Madred's Razors?
If we are dreaming up new versions of Wit's End, I'd rather see this:

Wit's End
Stinger (1250g) + Hexdrinker (1350g) + 770g = 3370g
+50% Attack Speed
+30 Attack Damage
+10% CDR
+30 Magic Resist

Unique: Your basic attacks increase your magic resistance by 5 for 5 seconds (maximum 4 stacks).
Unique: Your basic attacks deal 5 bonus magic damage per stack of MR you have.
Unique - Lifeline: If you would take magic damage which would leave you at less than 30% of your maximum health, You gain a shield which absorbs up to 250 (+25 per stack) magic damage for 5 seconds. 60 second cooldown.


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Thubgar

Senior Member

01-30-2013

hex vs wit's debate is missing that wit's is a % increase where hex is a flat one. that's not a trivial difference.