Do you think the pre-game lobby is...

In need of vast improvement 26 39.39%
In need of simple changes 31 46.97%
Not bad at all 8 12.12%
The best of all time 1 1.52%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

@RIOT What are we going to do about pregame?

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CaptainAMorgan

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix the rise View Post
Lolking only makes this game worse.
But RIOT can easily fix that with one simple change

lol


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SlayerofAsmodean

Senior Member

01-28-2013

I agree with most of the points in the OP.

Although you should still be able to see the name of the person/people you queued with.

And holy **** you like to bump your own thread.


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SourApples

Senior Member

01-28-2013

With the exception of muting I agree with this post


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CaptainAMorgan

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlayerofAsmodean View Post
I agree with most of the points in the OP.

Although you should still be able to see the name of the person/people you queued with.

And holy **** you like to bump your own thread.
Yes, because I am that tired of this and I want it to be known that there are simple implementations that can be made to vastly improve our online experience.

I also agree with that nuance of seeing those you Queued with, great point I missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Project VR View Post
With the exception of muting I agree with this post
But why?
Could you give a reason with some logic, or no?

I don't see why I shouldn't be able to mute spammers or obnoxious people before the game starts. I will ignore them once the loading screen finishes anyways...


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Exotic3s

Member

01-28-2013

Well S3 will clear the dodging problem up, seeing how you lose points when you dodge. GG DODGERS Wp for you trolls..

We think there is elo hell now. Just wait. You get caught by a couple trolls early on your ****ed.


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Purgation

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAMorgan View Post
My suggestions to improve the pre-game lobby:
I strongly agree that changes need to be made, but I don't agree with many of your suggestions....

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAMorgan View Post
1) Remove summoner names till loading screen (this would eliminate record lookups and the dodges associate with them)
Disagree. My philosophy is simple, we should be able to play with who we want. I would go the opposite direction and suggest that summoner profiles should be available at everyone's fingertips for ranked.

Think about it this way, if matchmaking works the way it is supposed to, you will always get similarly fair matches - - browsing player records will not improve your success. If this is not the case, then matchmaking is broken and needs to be fixed.

I would also add that I would like to see people who queued together clearly indicated as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAMorgan View Post
2) Allow for a muting function in the lobby (this will make it so you can easily ignore the disruptive people from the get-go)
Disagree again. If someone is so obnoxious that I have to mute them in the lobby, why should I have to play a game with them? Game is about communication, teamwork, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAMorgan View Post
3) Create some more player responsibility (There needs to be some more pre-game lobby based honors and reports)
4) Allow for pre/post game chat to be on the tribunal report (this is a step off from the pre-game lobby title discussion, but it needs to be said)
Strongly Agree, Specifically, pre-game lobby (including bans and champion selections) needs to be retained for tribunal and there needs to be a mechanism specifically for reporting someone from a "busted" match (e.g. if matchmaking fails with an afk, there should be an opportunity to report)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAMorgan View Post
5) Regarding ranked - Be more strict on those playing for ranking. I honestly do not understand how punishments can be dealt in the same way when it comes to ranking vs public games. I really feel like there needs to be some type of special punishments when it comes to ranked. Possible ranked Q suspensions for behavior? Just something to improve any aspect of the system would be much appreciated.
Agree. Specifically, I think the thresholds should be much different for Bot games, Blind Pick, Draft, and Ranked. - - with increasingly strict standards for each.

I think this loosely aligns around something Red has posted previously, which is the need to convey a level of seriousness and expectations around ranked games in particular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAMorgan View Post
Your ideas...
I believe that:

either)

A. There should be little or no penalty for leaving (5 minutes doubling each time within 24 hours, doesn't apply to other modes) -- this is my preferred option

or)

B. There should be a vote to kick, in which if there is a unanimous vote of the other groups (a duo counts as one group), a player or group can be kicked from the match, and they would be forced to leave, possibly incurring a penalty.

I would note that, in order to prevent abuse of this feature, it should be possible for the "kicked" player to submit a report of unjustified or troll kicking, and this should be on a hair trigger for tribunal review.

I prefer "A" because B is too prone to abuse. And if there is no penalty for being kicked, people will simply use option B as a way to get around any penalty from leaving. (e.g. everyone agrees to kick player X and break the match)

Perhaps there is an option "C" which allows there to be a penalty for leaving but is carefully balanced against the trolling problem and the risk of abuse.... but I'm not sure that in the end the benefits of such an option are really better than simply letting people leave with minimal penalty if they want to.

**************************************

I realize that there are a number of very challenging dilemmas that Riot faces around solo queue that cut to the very core of what the game is about.

To take one example, let's say that there is no leave penalty at all - - well then it is possible for someone obtaining a fairly high ranking by literally playing one champion and one role, and refusing to play under any other circumstances. It is really "fair" for that person to rank higher than someone who achieves their rank across a wide range of champions and roles?

Another example is team composition. In a low penalty environment, you can always bail if your team get's "out-picked" so in essence, this is no longer a major part of the game.

Interestingly, these two examples cut opposite ways verses pre-made 5 v 5 teams - - there is no mechanism to force a 5man player to play anything but one role, so why should soloqueue? On the other hand, in 5 man if you get outmaneuvered in bans and picks, well, that is clearly a failing of your team.

Maybe in the end, part of the problem is that Riot is fighting against the two modes really being almost two different games with very different dynamics - which unfortunately, they just inherently are.

TL;DR The pre-game lobby definitely needs improvement, but the specifics are tricky to get right.


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CaptainAMorgan

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IG x Éxotic View Post
Well S3 will clear the dodging problem up, seeing how you lose points when you dodge. GG DODGERS Wp for you trolls..

We think there is elo hell now. Just wait. You get caught by a couple trolls early on your ****ed.
This is exactly how I feel about the new changes.

I hardly ever dodge, and when I do it's me at the end of my wits (losing streak due to trolls I didn't dodge leading right into another troll...) or someone who is ridiculously disruptive (spamming chat with nonsense and trolling, taking someone's picked spot, taking "troll" champs and going with "troll" summoners).

These people get what they want because the "good" people have no recourse but either
A) walking away from the problem
B) wasting 20 minutes dealing with a jerk losing you the game

Now RIOT has practically taken away "A" so our only future choice will be wasting my time, and I sure don't like doing that...

RIOT needs to get their heads wrapped around the average player. It's silly to think they can understand these plights when most of the time people treat them like celebs.

I have never once heard of a RIOTer making these complaints, but I encounter these things on a daily basis, maybe even more than 50% of the lobbies I get into.


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
In need of vast improvement
I picked that one.

Really, it's the worst it's ever been. It's hard to even wanna play SR. When someone acts like a jackass in lobby an innocent player dodges and they get a free requeue to torment some other players. There's no way of reporting them and no way of kicking them but dodging yourself. Then you have some moron who lolkings everyone and calls them out on ranked stats from lord knows how long ago. Even in normals.

It's just a mexican standoff every freakin game. Every single time someone doesn't get their little binky and they throw a fit. Occasionally you get the lobby where everyone is happy, then someone on the other team dodges...

How to fix it has been suggested numerous times: Include pregame chat in tribunal, votekick option in pregame, hide summoner names in the lobby.

Those should have been done by now. We shouldn't have to beg this long to make solo queue tolerable.

edit to add: also flag which players are premade with each other in pregame lobby. that shouldn't be difficult either. just like a little green thing or something that says hey these guys are a duo/trio/quad queue.


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CaptainAMorgan

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgation View Post
I strongly agree that changes need to be made, but I don't agree with many of your suggestions....
Thank Goodness for you!
Someone with actual opinions, SHOCKER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgation View Post
Disagree. My philosophy is simple, we should be able to play with who we want. I would go the opposite direction and suggest that summoner profiles should be available at everyone's fingertips for ranked.
This is funny. I will tell you a story:
There was once a game where everyone's complete performance record was available publicly. The game was very competitive and because of that records were always checked. After a few weeks, it would take 10-15 minutes to find a lobby of people who were worth playing with.
The name of the game is avoiding me, but inevitably games took a half hour plus to find.
This is exactly what I am witnessing here with Lolking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgation View Post
Think about it this way, if matchmaking works the way it is supposed to, you will always get similarly fair matches - - browsing player records will not improve your success. If this is not the case, then matchmaking is broken and needs to be fixed.
It's not about overall success as much as current success.
Of the last people that displayed people's records many of those were because the people were on a -200 ELO drop. Not because their overall record was at the wrong ELO, but because they were on a freefall.

Match making will never be that encompassing to consider such a drop. It technically cannot be as whatever ELO someone is at is the correct ELO. Regardless of a recent drop or not. MM is working as they intended it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgation View Post
Disagree again. If someone is so obnoxious that I have to mute them in the lobby, why should I have to play a game with them? Game is about communication, teamwork, etc...
Guess what, RIOT doesn't care and clearly doesn't agree with your statement.
I understand I shouldn't have to deal with people I cannot communicate with, but the fact remains that people will rage and freak out over anything. Since this is the case it may be necessary to mute certain people to gratify my own experience. I have HAD to play many games with my 4 team mates muted, and I have also won plenty of those, but what you're suggesting is not possible.

RIOT is making it nigh impossible to dodge out too.

I have to mute people all the time, but there is no way I can get out of dealing with the racists, the spammers, the ragers in any other way than muting or avoiding. And avoidance is becoming a non-option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgation View Post
Maybe in the end, part of the problem is that Riot is fighting against the two modes really being almost two different games with very different dynamics - which unfortunately, they just inherently are.
This is true, 100%.

Fact remains the system is built to be the same all around. This clearly causes issues that need immediate resolution.

There is no recourse or help for people who have to deal with trolls before and after the game. I doubt RIOT looks through all the screenshots I have sent them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pudge1cup View Post
edit to add: also flag which players are premade with each other in pregame lobby. that shouldn't be difficult either. just like a little green thing or something that says hey these guys are a duo/trio/quad queue.
Yup, but I have begged for years now.
I have been here since beta and these changes aren't even discussed by RIOT.

As I said earlier. I want to see "Summoner names will not be available until the loading screen for all ranked Queues".
There is no benefit to being able to look into my team mates previous history unless they want me to know about it (showing that they can certainly carry within a specific role is a great example of LOLking helping someone out), but at no point should everyone be able to know all the dirt about those they are playing with.

It's not used for the benefits it can provide (seeing who is good at what and where) it is being used as a tool to troll (force dodges, steal roles, troll someone based on their record, scare people into dodging).


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Khobahi

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Remove Lolking, then communicate in pregame and no more looking people up.