Randuin's v. Warmog's

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Griseldurf

Member

01-27-2013

So after watching both IEM Katowice and the LCS qualifier this weekend in Poland I saw that Warmog is the single most popular item in the game, period. I saw it on standard champs like Olaf and top laners, but I also saw it on a mid laner or two and even a Kog Maw I think once. I don't play top a ton so I'm not an expert on the math involved with some items key to bruisers, but it seems that Randuin's should be used a lot more than it is even in comparison to Warmog and Sunfire. It has Giant's Belt, the most popular component, and adds a good effect from Warden's Mail and when you finish Omen you get the full stats plus the slow that is always nice. I know resistances are not as good compared to S2, but did Omen fall off that much?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

67chrome

Senior Member

01-27-2013

I'm fairly certain Omen is still the #1 item to counter auto-attackers as it gives a trifecta of defenses against auto-attacks.

Warmog's gives you defense against absolutly everything though. And if you're a squishy champion (like a solo mid mage or a carry) magical burst damage can be a much larger threat. Or even physical burst damage from the likes of "AD Casters", that generally aren't as negativly impacted by Cold Steel as one would hope. And even champions like Vayne, Elise, Malzahar, Brand, and Kog'Maw have so much flat damage added to their %health damage you're still seeing a noticeable increase in EHP against them.

Health is currently one of the most efficient attributes to get early-on as well, were resistances only really end up being cost-effective when you already have ~level 18 health values - and even then only if the damage you take is predominantly physical or predominantly magical, if it's a mix of both health maintains rather solid cost-efficiency for a bit longer. So even if you pick up Randuin's Omen, it's likely after a Warmog's.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EmperorCookie

Senior Member

01-29-2013

I'll just leave this here.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

itsbigfoot

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Mogs is as powerful as randuins stat-wise, but costs 500 less and works against all champs instead of just physical/auto attackers. it is also one of the few ways to sustain yourself as a tank since you have to health stack


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

67chrome

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorCookie View Post
I'll just leave this here.
Considering everyone who picked up Warmog's has it in there very last item slot I'm going to say Warmog's had almost nothing to do with that defeat. The itemization choices on the winning team seem to be more strategic in general as well - a variety of them picked up Ninja Tabi due to the loosing side having 3 physical auto-attackers, while the counter-build choices on the loosing team seem misguided. It looks like the top-lane (I'm guessing) Yi went for counter-building the Tryndamere with armor, picking up the previously mentioned Ninja Tabi and Wriggle's Lantern. No counter-building by Tryndamere. As for questionable item choices, why does Varus has a Quicksilver Sash? The only thing he can use it for is to remove bleed stacks. THE ONLY THING. seriously, the CC on everyone is displacement-based and none of them ran with Exhaust. Guardian Angel is an all-around better counter to Darius, and actually does something against the other 3 physical damage dealing champions as well. The fact the winning team has no CC to mitigate at all also makes the Mercury Treads picked up by Tryndamere a derpy choice, especially seeing as there was only 1 AP champion on the enemy team. I realize AD champions like Master Yi and Darius deal some magical damage as well, but when all you're getting from Mercury Treads is MR it's not the pair of boots to grab, especially if the enemy team is both heavily geared towards physical damage and has 3 dedicated auto-attacking champions. Beyond that the Thresh support is the only champion on the loosing team that actually built tanky items, which means the loosing team had no initiator for fights (though judging by Xin's score it seems like he tried to initiate without the survivability to do so) - were the jungler Jarvin on the winning team did build tanky enough to initiate fights.

Even if the winning team swapped their items around there were plenty of other reasons for them to win, just saying. I'd say Warmog's accounted for 5% of the end result of that game at most.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ReturnToDust

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
Considering everyone who picked up Warmog's has it in there very last item slot I'm going to say Warmog's had almost nothing to do with that defeat. The itemization choices on the winning team seem to be more strategic in general as well - a variety of them picked up Ninja Tabi due to the loosing side having 3 physical auto-attackers, while the counter-build choices on the loosing team seem misguided. It looks like the top-lane (I'm guessing) Yi went for counter-building the Tryndamere with armor, picking up the previously mentioned Ninja Tabi and Wriggle's Lantern. No counter-building by Tryndamere. As for questionable item choices, why does Varus has a Quicksilver Sash? The only thing he can use it for is to remove bleed stacks. THE ONLY THING. seriously, the CC on everyone is displacement-based and none of them ran with Exhaust. Guardian Angel is an all-around better counter to Darius, and actually does something against the other 3 physical damage dealing champions as well. The fact the winning team has no CC to mitigate at all also makes the Mercury Treads picked up by Tryndamere a derpy choice, especially seeing as there was only 1 AP champion on the enemy team. I realize AD champions like Master Yi and Darius deal some magical damage as well, but when all you're getting from Mercury Treads is MR it's not the pair of boots to grab, especially if the enemy team is both heavily geared towards physical damage and has 3 dedicated auto-attacking champions. Beyond that the Thresh support is the only champion on the loosing team that actually built tanky items, which means the loosing team had no initiator for fights (though judging by Xin's score it seems like he tried to initiate without the survivability to do so) - were the jungler Jarvin on the winning team did build tanky enough to initiate fights.

Even if the winning team swapped their items around there were plenty of other reasons for them to win, just saying. I'd say Warmog's accounted for 5% of the end result of that game at most.
Quoting tell them they're wrong and then posting the obvious answer that they put their completed item on the last slot leaves me dumbfounded. You literally answered yourself.

Warmog or the buildup to it needs to be changed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TealNinje

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReturnToDust View Post
Quoting tell them they're wrong and then posting the obvious answer that they put their completed item on the last slot leaves me dumbfounded. You literally answered yourself.

Warmog or the buildup to it needs to be changed.
Or the losing team needs to not have Tryndamere on it.

Tryndamere is the weakest champion in the game. He does one thing, and yet somehow manages to be worse at that one thing than every other champion in the game.



In order for the losing team to turn things around, they would have needed Randuin's Omen and a proper tank, rather than an initiator like Xin Zhao. This is ignoring the gold disparity of 55.8 to 67.9 thousand gold. 12100 gold is a very large wall to deal with; unless that gold is spent on literally useless stats (like AP on Zed, although I'm determined to try that one day), it should represent a very strong advantage that requires precise play to counter.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ReturnToDust

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
Or the losing team needs to not have Tryndamere on it.

Tryndamere is the weakest champion in the game. He does one thing, and yet somehow manages to be worse at that one thing than every other champion in the game.



In order for the losing team to turn things around, they would have needed Randuin's Omen and a proper tank, rather than an initiator like Xin Zhao. This is ignoring the gold disparity of 55.8 to 67.9 thousand gold. 12100 gold is a very large wall to deal with; unless that gold is spent on literally useless stats (like AP on Zed, although I'm determined to try that one day), it should represent a very strong advantage that requires precise play to counter.
And yet that still doesn't change the facts that most pros are getting it on champs you would have never seen it on before. The item obviously needs some changing and will probably get it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

kavinh the third

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

02-01-2013

the passive on warmogs is just so much better then rendiun's stats it was great in season 2 but u had to farm a hundred creeps to get it stacked up now u don't need to anymore.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TealNinje

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReturnToDust View Post
And yet that still doesn't change the facts that most pros are getting it on champs you would have never seen it on before. The item obviously needs some changing and will probably get it.
I put Warmog's on many of my ranged champions if I needed some bulk. This has been the case since beta.

Also, Warmog's used to be a main item for Sivir, back when she was pushgoddess

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavinh the third View Post
the passive on warmogs is just so much better then rendiun's stats it was great in season 2 but u had to farm a hundred creeps to get it stacked up now u don't need to anymore.
Funny thing about that; Warmog's was nerfed, while Randuin's was buffed. You gain 20 more health base from the new Warmog's. You gain a bit more regen, but no scaling health or regen. After this most recent patch, the gold disparity of old compared to new is only, what, 400 gold?


12