Anti-Fun

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FAPTlMUS PRIME

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Member

01-27-2013

so if blitz is antifun, amumu or ali are the anti fun of the anti fun, cuz if blitz pull ali or amumu, his team is gona have a bad time


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The Lord Impaler

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anachronity View Post
Originally Posted by Zileas

Anti-fun is the negative experience your opponents feel when you do something that prevents them from 'playing their game' or doing activities they consider fun. While everything useful you can do as a player is likely to cause SOME anti-fun in your opponents, it only becomes a design issue when the 'anti-fun' created on your use of a mechanic is greater than your fun in using the mechanic. Dark Binding is VERY favorable on this measurement, because opponents get clutch dodges just like you get clutch hits, so it might actually create fun on both sides, instead of fun on one and weak anti-fun on another. On the other hand, a strong mana burn is NOT desirable -- if you drain someone to 0 you feel kinda good, and they feel TERRIBLE -- so the anti-fun is exceeded by the fun. This is important because the goal of the game is for players to have fun, so designers should seek abilities that result in a net increase of fun in the game. Basic design theory, yes?
Very close, but I would put a slightly different twist on it, If the other Champs abilities "Shut Out your game, rather then just BEAT your game" its Anti-Fun. Being Beat happens all the time, every game ends with someone being Beat, every form of competition ends with someone being beat but both sides still GET TO PLAY, play is Fun and not playing is not Fun, thus not letting the opponent play is ANTI Fun.

If anyone has ever played MagictheGathering and played against "permission" (deck of virtually all counter-spells) then you know how frustrating it is to not even be able to play what your brought to the table. For certain players and Champs not being able to be supper aggressive constitutes anti-fun because aggression is what they are bringing to the game, for others it may simply be anti-fun if they are denied farming.

In the Zileas "drain all your mana" example the drained player is effectively unable to play and has to recall, which is a brief "shutdown" period, much like dieing is for all champs. Too much periodic shutdown (as would happen if you had an ability that drained all your mana) becomes a shut-out and that's very not fun because one side has effectively stopped playing the game. This is the reason Ults are on long cool-downs because they are designed to create kills and too much killing is anti-fun, likewise minions exist to buffer the players from each other and give them something other then each other to kill.

Now note that Anti-Fun and OP are completely separate concepts, often OP is ALSO anti-fun because of the time-out associated with death. But it's easy to imagine Champions that are Anti-Fun without being OP. Gratuitous Silencing by a support would be the most obvious example as your not usually killed by it but your just unable to play or at least only 'half' playing when you have no abilities.


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Bamboo Worrior

Senior Member

01-28-2013

for me, Anti-fun is players have same lv of ability, but different champ, since some champ are built so imba, other champs look so *****. You have to try way harder thank them to get a win. Thats anti-fun


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DarksideEric

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Bump.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamboo Worrior View Post
for me, Anti-fun is players have same lv of ability, but different champ, since some champ are built so imba, other champs look so *****. You have to try way harder thank them to get a win. Thats anti-fun
So, basically, you think that Riot's balance design of rock-paper-scissors style, also called 'perfect imbalance', is anti-fun?

The fact that you can't just blindly join a game and expect to carry on your own skill?


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
So, basically, you think that Riot's balance design of rock-paper-scissors style, also called 'perfect imbalance', is anti-fun?

The fact that you can't just blindly join a game and expect to carry on your own skill?
There's nothing wrong with rock-paper-scissors balancing as far as averages, but when it enters into "insurmountable waist-high fence" territory it just feels absolutely terrible while the opposing side only gets a little bit of fun out of it.

Thing like champions that snowball totally out of control off of one or two kills (or are totally irrelevant if killed) -AKA, bipolar champions- are definitely one of these things, and, riot has actually worked very hard to change and reduce snowballing to a more manageable extent in many cases.


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JustMyBassCannon

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01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantPyrophore View Post
There's nothing wrong with rock-paper-scissors balancing as far as averages, but when it enters into "insurmountable waist-high fence" territory it just feels absolutely terrible while the opposing side only gets a little bit of fun out of it.

Thing like champions that snowball totally out of control off of one or two kills (or are totally irrelevant if killed) -AKA, bipolar champions- are definitely one of these things, and, riot has actually worked very hard to change and reduce snowballing to a more manageable extent in many cases.
That's different from what they were talking about. And the snowball effect has been rounded out so that anyone can, with proper play, start or stop a snowball if they do it at the right time.

Some snowball harder than others still, but that's inevitable.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
That's different from what they were talking about. And the snowball effect has been rounded out so that anyone can, with proper play, start or stop a snowball if they do it at the right time.

Some snowball harder than others still, but that's inevitable.
Look, you can confirm that anti-fun was in discussion, I'd say it IS accordant. Apart from that, you said what I said.

I am now trying to accomplish communication without any of a most common symbol, this is intriguing, and, in truth, my laptop has a malfunctioning button which disallows my utilization of that symbol without using an on-display aid. This was difficult at first, but it is gradually starting to simplify as I find my way around common hang-ups.

If you find my kind of writing is odd, this is why. Ha, my vocabulary is growing rapidly to accomplish my communication tasks, but, ill luck it is, for all of my passwords I must form again.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantPyrophore View Post
Look, you can confirm that anti-fun was in discussion, I'd say it IS accordant. Apart from that, you said what I said.

I am now trying to accomplish communication without any of a most common symbol, this is intriguing, and, in truth, my laptop has a malfunctioning button which disallows my utilization of that symbol without using an on-display aid. This was difficult at first, but it is gradually starting to simplify as I find my way around common hang-ups.

If you find my kind of writing is odd, this is why. Ha, my vocabulary is growing rapidly to accomplish my communication tasks.
It can suck to lose the apostrophe key.

What I was saying is that they were complaining about how champion A might lose to champion B even if they are equally skilled players, and that is irrelevant because the game is not balanced around blind picks and individual skill; teamwork, counter-picking and counter-building are what win games. And wards, but that is an entirely different discussion altogether.

Of course, I tend to use the wrong words to communicate my meaning.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMyBassCannon View Post
It can suck to lose the apostrophe key.

What I was saying is that they were complaining about how champion A might lose to champion B even if they are equally skilled players, and that is irrelevant because the game is not balanced around blind picks and individual skill; teamwork, counter-picking and counter-building are what win games. And wards, but that is an entirely different discussion altogether.

Of course, I tend to use the wrong words to communicate my meaning.
If I could form a word for what you think I lost, I would not form communication this way. Alas, you do not fathom my loss and it is not of this: '. It is of a thing far, far past loss of a small '.

Although, your logic is with only small fault in our past communication, that is, skill of similar bulk was not actually so focal to discussion.


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