Karma, the worst... Apc?!

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DragonOdyssey

Member

01-28-2013

The problem with Karma is that her early game is extremely powerful, but her late game....... Not so much. Usually, when I go mid and build all these AP items, the only thing I can really do is support. That's it, support with a lot of AP.

Riot is working on a remake and remodel for Karma, and I am excited for it. She needs the remake so badly that she's the only champion removed from the free rotation (for about two years, I think).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lord Faff

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Karma is a late game champ, while ADC's need all the help they can get in the early lvls meaning she isn't that great a support. I like her as an AP mid however, good damage, good wave clear and plenty of sustain.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sogreth

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Faff View Post
Karma is a late game champ, while ADC's need all the help they can get in the early lvls meaning she isn't that great a support. I like her as an AP mid however, good damage, good wave clear and plenty of sustain.
How do you figure she is a late game champ? Her early-mid game is where she is strong, getting the right rune/mastery page set-up gives her an amazing early-mid game. But her late game is weak, no matter what you do.

And no amount of "skill" will change how that works, since some people like to say "L2Play Karma! herp", it's not that fact that people can't play her, it's the fact that she is very limited to what she can do.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sogreth

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonOdyssey View Post
The problem with Karma is that her early game is extremely powerful, but her late game....... Not so much. Usually, when I go mid and build all these AP items, the only thing I can really do is support. That's it, support with a lot of AP.

Riot is working on a remake and remodel for Karma, and I am excited for it. She needs the remake so badly that she's the only champion removed from the free rotation (for about two years, I think).
^ Couldn't have said it better my friend. The same thing goes for me when I play her, whether you go mid, or solo top, all the AP in the world will still turn her into a support late game. I played a game one time mid with her, the other team had to lane swap their Ryze for a their Vayne, and I killed them both. But late game all I could do was support, it feels like she loses all her burst late game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Best Karma Ionia

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Karma will NOT be running in bursting the enemy team down and carrying lategame, she turns more into a background assassin. You shield carries, or whoever is being focused, heal, and tether to catch running enemies. You can 1v1 most people if you bait and use bushes properly due to her huge CD problem [I rush ionian boots and athenes to help here]. Otherwise your damage output IS limited, but her endgame, dare I say, support plays are some of the best and personally, one of the most Game Changing I've ever seen on any champ. You make or break teamfights, and thus, wins. Assuming both teams are equally competent / scores etc are equal.







Just went 9-2-16 against a halloween skin Nid. "You're playing a troll champ mid I've never seen before, I dont even know what you do"


THAT IS WHY SHE NEEDS TO NOT BE BUFFED. Her strength is people have no idea what she does or how she does it or range or how much she heals or bubbles.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Chokomaro

Senior Member

01-28-2013

I'm sick and tired of posters like this, "KARMA IS OP OMG JUST GET HER MID LANE AND GET HER FARM!"

That's the problem. Karma was designed as a support but she doesn't support very well unless you give her tons of farm and champion kills. If anything they should just re-make Karma as a full-on AP mage if that's the case. Support-wise Janna, Soraka, Taric and Sona are much better. There are way better picks for AP mid too.

That's the problem with Karma as well, she's a half-support and bursty half-mage, can do both roles but are not amazing at both roles. Its better for Karma in the long run to be remade as a full AP mage or a full Support, she needs a role she's a "master" at, in other words she was created for that specific role. Being able to support but out-classed by other supports and being able to be a mage but outclassed by other mages is not going to help her as the game evolves.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xela Syab

Senior Member

01-28-2013

She lacks hard cc, she doesn't provide a passive aura, she's both mana hungry and cdr dependant. Other than that she has the strongest shield, strongest heal, strongest speed boost in the game. She's also not good with ranged adcs, they can't utilize her shield since they are dependant on kiting and poking. If you get someone like Olaf or Xin bottom lane you'll never lose, she gives them a shield to absorb burst, spirit bond to gap close, heavenly wave to deal damage, then soul shield again with mantra to finish them off and give your adc double health. That's her deal is that we don't see any Trynds, AD yi's, Fioras, and Xin's bot lane anymore. Also her mid game sucks since she doesn't get an ultimate and kinda falls off in teamfights until she maxes a skill.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Armageddal

Senior Member

01-28-2013

I've seen some pretty beast Karma players. The shield is godly on the right person too. People need to play her like the utility mage she is. She can still do lots of damage, but more focused through her allies than herself.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gale

Senior Member

01-28-2013

It's because of several things really.

* She is very reliant on Mantra in order to deal damage and heal - this means she has to stack more CDR then other casters.

* It's possible to miss with her heal. This along with the skills dependency on Mantra creates problems. You might be aiming perfectly with the heal, but if your team mate decides to move left instead of right, or flash just as it's cast this can get your team mate killed and you just wasted one of your Mantra stacks

* Her Spirit Bond requires more positioning then ANY OTHER SKILL. No other skill that I can think of requires so much positioning in order to use it to its full effect. This is partly due to the fact that it takes 2 people in order to use it, and if I'm not mistaken if you use it on an enemy the enemy is only slowed not damaged.

* Her passive is kind of horrible. For an AP Caster a missing health passive is pretty bad. The point of AP Caster is to NEVER GET CAUGHT. If you get caught then you die fast, even if you don't build glass cannon. If her passive offered her something at high percent as well as low percent THEN I could understand it. But as it is, your passive is only effective when you screw up horribly.

*Ranged ADC champions can avoid most of her damage attacks pretty easily

Karma is actually one of my favorite champs, but there is just too much that can go wrong with her compared to other AP casters and Support characters that there is no reason to play her over any other AP or Support. If you played a perfect game with Karma you would be just as good as a decent game with some of the other AP and Support characters.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

asamu

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homocastle View Post
"The Noxians called her, 'The Enlightened One' a nickname she embraced, and one which they would come to dread. She joined the League to represent Ionia in the ultimate political arena."

Oh Riot, if only you knew Karma's fate. She has indeed become dreaded; to her own teammates. I've been forced to call mid and pretend to be some amazing champ such as Akali or Swain and switch to karma the last second; much to my teammates displeasure. I ASK YOU, FORUMS OF LEAGUE. WHY?

Karma is incredibly bursty, specifically at level 3 when her e, her bubble, combined with Mantra does abnormally high damage-level ratio output. I got first blood on twisted fate, as well as second blood the moment he came back. I wont lie. Her midgame is indeed slow, you wont be destroying face, roaming and shutting down lanes solo, like most APCs. Instead, you'll be split pushing, supporting your bad or feeding laners. But come late game? I've never played a more game-changing champion. As an APC without her passive AP increase, her shield will add about 800 hp, while dealing the same damage to all enemies nearby; priceless in teamfights. Her heal will heal 135 + 20% [on average] missing hp IN A CONE. Set up perfectly and you just healed your entire team for a large chunk in the middle of a team fight. What's that? Olaf is ghost ulting away? Dont worry, Ill mantra spirit bond with the ADC, we catch up to him in no time and it's an ace.

So what makes her so bad. Why is she frowned upon as both a mid champ and support, despite having the best shield and, besides soraka ult, heal? She has amazing pursuit and crippling ability, endless sustain with a chalice. I love nothing less then baiting a carry to follow me into a tower with 200 hp. Mantra, shield, mantra heal, spirit bond; THE PLAYS! The possibilities! I realize her range and needing to shield an ally/herself to deal damage makes her way less reliable, but to be kicked around as the worst champ of the game, is a bit of a stretch.

I will defend Karma til the end of days! Or this server crash.
She is way stronger than people give her credit for. Her early game is weak, especially as a support, but late game with AP, she can heal the entire team upwards of 700 damage, put a shield for close to the same, and deal a lot of damage.

The problem with her is that she is incredibly hard to play (the mechanics on her link ability and the Mantra usage), lacks base strength on her abilities (so she needs farm), and doesn't have the damage output of other champions (she can't kill just about anyone in a single combo like Xerath, Brand, Ryze, Akali, Ahri, etc.). She can prevent the other people from dealing significant damage to her team, and heal what they do deal, but her damage output and early game aren't great in comparison to other champions, and that is all that seems to matter to people.
Of all of the supports, Karma has by far the strongest late game, but her early game is weak.