Thresh Passive

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A Prop Phone

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

This passive is a joke. He should only get souls from champions since he also has some of the strongest harass of any support. As soon as he collects a few souls from minions you are completely screwed because you have no way to stop him from collecting them from there out he gets tanky so fast.


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OMBlah

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Sure let's promote getting kills as a support.


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Resther

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Prop Phone View Post
This passive is a joke. He should only get souls from champions since he also has some of the strongest harass of any support. As soon as he collects a few souls from minions you are completely screwed because you have no way to stop him from collecting them from there out he gets tanky so fast.
He gets souls from enemy minions at random. Whenever I play Thresh, I've seen minion waves only give out a single soul. Thresh has no control over how many souls drop, with the exceptions being Cannon Minions, Super Minions, Large Jungle Creeps, and Enemy Champions. Those are the only things that drop souls 100% of the time. He does have strong harass, but he's also just a support/tank. His damage is pretty low and he has poor scaling (as in none). Without his passive soul collecting, Thresh has no scaling armor and no ability power coming in.

He's very easy to counter when it comes to soul collecting. He either has to walk up to the soul or toss his lantern. That is how he's countered. If he walks up to them, you can royally screw him over just by killing him for extending into your minion wave, and if he uses his lantern, he's just used his primary (basically his ONLY) supporting tool to farm souls (good for him, bad for his adc who may need to be saved from a bad situation.) If the Thresh player uses it correctly, he can still support his ally, while also gathering souls.

As far as tankiness goes, just by soul collecting ALONE, it takes about 100 or so to reach the level of tankiness of a level 18 champion with normal scaling armor per level, which Thresh does not have. (I could be a bit off, but it's something like 100 souls.) WIth items, he does get tankier, and his passive helps this further. He's designed this way, learn to adapt.

Please stop making threads complaining about a champion's mechanics that you clearly know nothing about.


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H0p0nP0p

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resther View Post
He gets souls from enemy minions at random. Whenever I play Thresh, I've seen minion waves only give out a single soul. Thresh has no control over how many souls drop, with the exceptions being Cannon Minions, Super Minions, Large Jungle Creeps, and Enemy Champions. Those are the only things that drop souls 100% of the time. He does have strong harass, but he's also just a support/tank. His damage is pretty low and he has poor scaling (as in none). Without his passive soul collecting, Thresh has no scaling armor and no ability power coming in.

He's very easy to counter when it comes to soul collecting. He either has to walk up to the soul or toss his lantern. That is how he's countered. If he walks up to them, you can royally screw him over just by killing him for extending into your minion wave, and if he uses his lantern, he's just used his primary (basically his ONLY) supporting tool to farm souls (good for him, bad for his adc who may need to be saved from a bad situation.) If the Thresh player uses it correctly, he can still support his ally, while also gathering souls.

As far as tankiness goes, just by soul collecting ALONE, it takes about 100 or so to reach the level of tankiness of a level 18 champion with normal scaling armor per level, which Thresh does not have. (I could be a bit off, but it's something like 100 souls.) WIth items, he does get tankier, and his passive helps this further. He's designed this way, learn to adapt.

Please stop making threads complaining about a champion's mechanics that you clearly know nothing about.
No scaling?!?! Thresh has ap and soul scaling abilities, and the souls give him ap and armor. every creep wave there's atleast 3-4 souls dropped. If he just sits there for 1 min, that's atleast 7 souls. 10 minutes is already 70!!!!! Dont tell me he gets armor and ap of a normal lvl 18 in just 10 minutes here.

Broken innate.


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Mitey Oosik

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by H0p0nP0p View Post
No scaling?!?! Thresh has ap and soul scaling abilities, and the souls give him ap and armor. every creep wave there's atleast 3-4 souls dropped. If he just sits there for 1 min, that's atleast 7 souls. 10 minutes is already 70!!!!! Dont tell me he gets armor and ap of a normal lvl 18 in just 10 minutes here.

Broken innate.
Cool made up numbers bro!


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Weyen

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by H0p0nP0p View Post
No scaling?!?! Thresh has ap and soul scaling abilities, and the souls give him ap and armor. every creep wave there's atleast 3-4 souls dropped. If he just sits there for 1 min, that's atleast 7 souls. 10 minutes is already 70!!!!! Dont tell me he gets armor and ap of a normal lvl 18 in just 10 minutes here.

Broken innate.
Not quite.

There's something like a 1/3 chance of a non-cannon minion dropping a soul, that's about 2 per wave. And each soul is worth progressively less, down to .5 points of AP/Armor once you get to 100 souls. So assuming we're looking at getting 70 armor, it's going to take about 94 or 95 souls to do it. 2 souls per wave, 2 waves per minute and you've got it taking something like 23 minutes of solid farming, assuming he stays in lane the entire time, never dies, and is never zoned or misses a soul.

In a real game, it'll be much slower than that unless your ADC is completely asleep or can't harass for some reason. If you're facing a Thresh with +70 armor at 10 minutes in, it means he's either running some serious armor runes, or you're not noticing an item or aura or something.


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l MinimumWage l

Member

01-30-2013

the scaling of his progressive soul collecting is still too high. I run armor / magic resist runes and after 20 souls im already up to 80+ armor. Compared to taric, its a lot lower in the beginning, but it does scale too heavily into late game. With only a couple of low end armor items, after 100+ souls hes up to having more armor than the tank, at least 230+. In high elo games where its farmville in each lane, this tankiness is achieved very early. Grab the ruby sightstone for wards, kindlegem into shurelia's, runic bulkwark, and straight health, your looking at a support with 200+ armor with 4k hp in those long games.


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GlyphTsen

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Souls: 1 -1% per soul up until 50 souls (where it's 0.5 AP/Armor per soul from then on). The slope might be a little different (might not be smooth, haven't checked it at every interval) but that's basically it. At 50 souls, it's I think 37.25 bonus AP/Armor from the passive (probably off by a few numbers, too lazy and forgetful to do the equation properly or check in game).

Here's the thing, other than his ult (which is not a good ult for doing easy damage due to targeting, and only hits the first champ hard), his AP scaling is atrocious. His innate stats are like-wise unimpressive. Soul gathering can be punished or denied... and it can be helped if your team feeds in his general vicinity, or if you let your lane get pushed enough that he's got time to go into the jungle with his carry between waves. Average souls per wave is generally 1-3, including Cannon Creeps, but it's RNG, so it could go any-which way, allowing Thresh to do rather well or rather poorly from time to time.

Assuming "perfect" soul gathering, at 10 minutes he'll probably still have less than 50 souls, around 40-ish I think (high average), which translates to around 30 bonus armor. Put into perspective, Sona gets 3.3 armor per level, so at level six, will have around 16 armor from levels. Level 6 ten minutes in isn't necessarily that great even for a support, but we'll go with it. Essentially, this means that Thresh got 14 bonus armor from his passive by comparison (of course, Thresh has much higher Base armor). On the other hand, Sona also has her Sustain and aura bonuses, but Thresh's better health scaling probably helps make up for some of that sustain. For common non-sustain champions like Blitz, Leona, or Nunu, the story is much the same (they tend to have higher armor/level scaling than Sona as well, but not by a significant enough amount), though generally with other abilities to enhance their survivability (Blitz passive, Leona Eclipse, Nunu Consume).


Just some information for you all.