Widespread 14 day bans

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shadowmark2013

Member

10-03-2014

So, I've been seeing quite a few posts on this forum regarding the epidemic of 14 day suspensions, and I fealt as being one of those affected by this outbreak as well, I should share my input on the situation too. I will include a few of my forums posts in this thread in hopes that a Mod or Dev at Riot will see it and make a response to my inquiries.


After three days of receiving not so much as a straight answer from Riot support, and the typical generic copy/paste comments by an allegid algorithm, I have lost hope in Riot; as I have seen a once marvelous company transform into a corporate demon.




Post 1: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...4910367&page=4



Only been warned twice, months in-between thosee intervals of the warnings and months since the last one as well; no prior serious offenses, no chat restrict... nothing. I had approximately three games, in which I barely said anything at all; and hours after the last game (which I had lost), the only instance was me telling our Amumu that he gave me a bad gank; afterwards him harassing me about my gameplay which I then muted him, could that have been severe enough for a fourteen day suspension?

Instead of banning players for "offensive language", and aggressive/negative mentality towards their own team-mates, riot should provide players in-game additional tools to prevent such damage from occuring; we already have the chat filters and the mute feature, that should be enough to satisfy those looking for substantial influence over whether another individual can affect them in a negative manor. You see, it all comes down to player responsiblity, and one's own arbitrary standards in terms of what is socially acceptible amongst players; as the majority of the player-base will hold to their own perspective and take on the situation, and won't budge at all, it's difficult to change one's ideas and attempting to do so usually on solidifies their resolve, the only thing a ban does is stirr contempt and frustration amongst those affected, especially without being provided sufficient reason/evidence for their ban.


Anyways, this forces Riot into a rather difficult position, they have to take a radical position on this ordeal to be sure those who are "hyper-sensitive" to online interaction, and again frustration an vitreal from other players, are satisfied; so the majority of the work is placed on them as opposed to the responsibility being on the player... Which again with MILLIONS of players an a shortage of staff could be difficult, which is why again I'd like to propose we give our summoners a little more love in-terms of in-game mitigation of toxicity(tools similar to that of the ignore feature), to again mitigate much frivolous and arbitrary disdain amongst community members, those of you who agree; I hope that you will share this idea with others so that it may potentially reach a Riot Dev.



post 2:http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...1#post50359226 (One of the paragraphs is just me venting shortly after the ban itself, please note I was frustrated in this post; so excuse any negative comments if you will.)



My own response to a few of the RIOT staff's decisions in-terms of their new ban policies, and their lack there of informing the plyaer-base off what they are doing, no announcements; no heads-up, nothing:


Can't provide tribunal/chat logs to the individuals who were banned themselves, but yet have access to them at your own convenience to make others look bad; and then publicly humiliating them for asking reasonable questions, but I suppose you take this on a personal level given that that the whole ,"No tolerence, ban someone as soon as they say even one little word or phrase that offends another", is your idea afterall. Am I right?(In response to Lyte's comment on a forum, also regarding a post on reddit:http://bit.ly/1ncfBsp)


I hope all of you on this forum realize that you have been quote "toxic" at least once throughout your time on league, regardless of what you may have said; Lyte is one of the few people who fail to recognize that individuals as a whole have human emotion, and isn't quite as lax as many other staff members, I believe he, himself aspires that he is some sort of "profit", to save the community from toxicity.


Look at society as is, how many people HAVEN'T ever, under no circumstances come off as cruel or calculating.


Others, although perceived as toxicity; include vulgar or slang terms in their own way of speaking humorously, although the pretence has been laid that under any situation; frustration, anguish, or annoyance isn't ALLOWED at any given time, regardless of the situation as a whole. Gaming isn't a chore, something that we all do because we're forced to, it's competitive, and fun; not a set of guidelines and rules you have to follow.

It should be RIOT'S expectation that including a free and open chat in-game will also stirr quite a bit of controversy and unbridled frustrations amongst players in-game, because we are only HUMAN, I believe that in a game; that includes somewhat sexual themes, (in-terms of champions) weapons, violence, and so on; that we shouldn't be punishing people for things such as "verbal abuse", when there is even a mute/ignore feature placed right in the game, meaning there should be NO excuses whatsoever that if someone was offended by another's online behavior, and their own arbitrary definitions of social norms, that the issue wouldn't have been resolved on it's own, because might I remind you, MUTE/IGNORE THEM, if you don't do so; then it is your own fault for becoming enthralled in any sort of VERBAL altercation.


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powerbats

Senior Member

10-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowmark2013 View Post
So, I've been seeing quite a few posts on this forum regarding the epidemic of 14 day suspensions, and I fealt as being one of those affected by this outbreak as well, I should share my input on the situation too. I will include a few of my forums posts in this thread in hopes that a Mod or Dev at Riot will see it and make a response to my inquiries.


After three days of receiving not so much as a straight answer from Riot support, and the typical generic copy/paste comments by an allegid algorithm, I have lost hope in Riot; as I have seen a once marvelous company transform into a corporate demon.




Post 1: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...4910367&page=4



Only been warned twice, months in-between thosee intervals of the warnings and months since the last one as well; no prior serious offenses, no chat restrict... nothing. I had approximately three games, in which I barely said anything at all; and hours after the last game (which I had lost), the only instance was me telling our Amumu that he gave me a bad gank; afterwards him harassing me about my gameplay which I then muted him, could that have been severe enough for a fourteen day suspension?

Instead of banning players for "offensive language", and aggressive/negative mentality towards their own team-mates, riot should provide players in-game additional tools to prevent such damage from occuring; we already have the chat filters and the mute feature, that should be enough to satisfy those looking for substantial influence over whether another individual can affect them in a negative manor. You see, it all comes down to player responsiblity, and one's own arbitrary standards in terms of what is socially acceptible amongst players; as the majority of the player-base will hold to their own perspective and take on the situation, and won't budge at all, it's difficult to change one's ideas and attempting to do so usually on solidifies their resolve, the only thing a ban does is stirr contempt and frustration amongst those affected, especially without being provided sufficient reason/evidence for their ban.


Anyways, this forces Riot into a rather difficult position, they have to take a radical position on this ordeal to be sure those who are "hyper-sensitive" to online interaction, and again frustration an vitreal from other players, are satisfied; so the majority of the work is placed on them as opposed to the responsibility being on the player... Which again with MILLIONS of players an a shortage of staff could be difficult, which is why again I'd like to propose we give our summoners a little more love in-terms of in-game mitigation of toxicity(tools similar to that of the ignore feature), to again mitigate much frivolous and arbitrary disdain amongst community members, those of you who agree; I hope that you will share this idea with others so that it may potentially reach a Riot Dev.



post 2:http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...1#post50359226 (One of the paragraphs is just me venting shortly after the ban itself, please note I was frustrated in this post; so excuse any negative comments if you will.)



My own response to a few of the RIOT staff's decisions in-terms of their new ban policies, and their lack there of informing the plyaer-base off what they are doing, no announcements; no heads-up, nothing:


Can't provide tribunal/chat logs to the individuals who were banned themselves, but yet have access to them at your own convenience to make others look bad; and then publicly humiliating them for asking reasonable questions, but I suppose you take this on a personal level given that that the whole ,"No tolerence, ban someone as soon as they say even one little word or phrase that offends another", is your idea afterall. Am I right?(In response to Lyte's comment on a forum, also regarding a post on reddit:http://bit.ly/1ncfBsp)


I hope all of you on this forum realize that you have been quote "toxic" at least once throughout your time on league, regardless of what you may have said; Lyte is one of the few people who fail to recognize that individuals as a whole have human emotion, and isn't quite as lax as many other staff members, I believe he, himself aspires that he is some sort of "profit", to save the community from toxicity.


Look at society as is, how many people HAVEN'T ever, under no circumstances come off as cruel or calculating.


Others, although perceived as toxicity; include vulgar or slang terms in their own way of speaking humorously, although the pretence has been laid that under any situation; frustration, anguish, or annoyance isn't ALLOWED at any given time, regardless of the situation as a whole. Gaming isn't a chore, something that we all do because we're forced to, it's competitive, and fun; not a set of guidelines and rules you have to follow.

It should be RIOT'S expectation that including a free and open chat in-game will also stirr quite a bit of controversy and unbridled frustrations amongst players in-game, because we are only HUMAN, I believe that in a game; that includes somewhat sexual themes, (in-terms of champions) weapons, violence, and so on; that we shouldn't be punishing people for things such as "verbal abuse", when there is even a mute/ignore feature placed right in the game, meaning there should be NO excuses whatsoever that if someone was offended by another's online behavior, and their own arbitrary definitions of social norms, that the issue wouldn't have been resolved on it's own, because might I remind you, MUTE/IGNORE THEM, if you don't do so; then it is your own fault for becoming enthralled in any sort of VERBAL altercation.





The mute ignore button isn't there so you can be a jerk, this is Riot's game and you don't get to decide what's right and what's not. As far as posting chat logs they're not so readily available and they state if you ask for them to be posted that EVERYONE WILL SEE THEM! There's no public shaming going on here when people ask for them to be posted.



Read this since it explains it all quite clearly.



E. Suspension/Termination.
By Riot Games. RIOT GAMES RESERVES THE RIGHT TO SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY OR DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND WITH NO LIABILITY OF ANY KIND TO YOU. Additionally, Riot Games may stop offering and/or supporting the Game at any time. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most Account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violation of this Agreement, the EULA, the Privacy Policy, or the Summonerís Code (defined below). Accounts terminated by Riot Games shall not be reinstated under any conditions whatsoever.




V. CODE OF CONDUCT
While using any of the Properties, you agree to comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. You also agree to comply with certain additional rules that govern your use of the Properties (the "Code of Conduct"). The Code of Conduct is not meant to be exhaustive, and Riot Games reserves the right to modify this Code of Conduct at any time, as well as take appropriate disciplinary measures including Account termination and deletion to protect the integrity and spirit of the Properties, regardless of whether a specific behavior is listed here as prohibited. In addition to this Code of Conduct, please see the Summonerís Code for additional guidance on exemplary game-play behavior. The following are examples of behavior that warrant disciplinary measures:




C. Harassing, stalking, or threatening any other users in the Game;




E. Transmitting or communicating any content which, in the sole and exclusive discretion of Riot Games, is deemed offensive, including, but not limited to, language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable;



So since Riot's said you can't be a jerk therefore you can't be a jerk regardless of what you feel is ok or not. Now since Riot is also doing all reviews and bans right now it means you weren't being an angel but instead were being toxic and thus Riot chose to punish you.




While everyone is toxic at least once in game that's to be expected and so the system has built in leniency, you and the rest however aren't defending yourselves or having the occasional bad day but are consistently toxic.


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shadowmark2013

Member

10-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerbats View Post
The mute ignore button isn't there so you can be a jerk, this is Riot's game and you don't get to decide what's right and what's not. As far as posting chat logs they're not so readily available and they state if you ask for them to be posted that EVERYONE WILL SEE THEM! There's no public shaming going on here when people ask for them to be posted.



Read this since it explains it all quite clearly.



E. Suspension/Termination.
By Riot Games. RIOT GAMES RESERVES THE RIGHT TO SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY OR DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND WITH NO LIABILITY OF ANY KIND TO YOU. Additionally, Riot Games may stop offering and/or supporting the Game at any time. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, most Account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions are the result of violation of this Agreement, the EULA, the Privacy Policy, or the Summonerís Code (defined below). Accounts terminated by Riot Games shall not be reinstated under any conditions whatsoever.




V. CODE OF CONDUCT
While using any of the Properties, you agree to comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. You also agree to comply with certain additional rules that govern your use of the Properties (the "Code of Conduct"). The Code of Conduct is not meant to be exhaustive, and Riot Games reserves the right to modify this Code of Conduct at any time, as well as take appropriate disciplinary measures including Account termination and deletion to protect the integrity and spirit of the Properties, regardless of whether a specific behavior is listed here as prohibited. In addition to this Code of Conduct, please see the Summonerís Code for additional guidance on exemplary game-play behavior. The following are examples of behavior that warrant disciplinary measures:




C. Harassing, stalking, or threatening any other users in the Game;




E. Transmitting or communicating any content which, in the sole and exclusive discretion of Riot Games, is deemed offensive, including, but not limited to, language that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable;



So since Riot's said you can't be a jerk therefore you can't be a jerk regardless of what you feel is ok or not. Now since Riot is also doing all reviews and bans right now it means you weren't being an angel but instead were being toxic and thus Riot chose to punish you.




While everyone is toxic at least once in game that's to be expected and so the system has built in leniency, you and the rest however aren't defending yourselves or having the occasional bad day but are consistently toxic.

The last part was merely a suggestion in order for Riot to reduce the stress on themselves to support all of these overwhelming amount of support tickets being submitted primarily due to the change in their policies, what is considered toxic is arbitrary; when an individual claims another is toxic, they are usually going off their own inclination of what toxicity is and aren't properly educated.


Consistently toxic? Not entirely certain of that; I rarely ever get into any fights in a game unless engaged first by another summoners insults, after awhile if I notice such a conflict escalates far enough for their to be interference with the game, I will say; "Okay, let's just agree to mute each other, and play the damn game", and that's that. If I had numerous cases of toxicity over a short period of time, I am almost certain I would have received numerous chat restrictions before long; and additional warnings in s3 or s4, whenever riot made modifications to their policies once more (last I thoroughly reviewed the terms of use was S2), but anyways; what I get from what you've said so far, considering the fact you had a complete disregard for most of my suggestions, and only took the offensive as to explaining why I was banned, is that you don't believe that players in and outside of the game should be given additional tools to avoid conflict with other players, and maybe a little more responsibility placed on the player to avoid these conflicts on their own, as a game with such a large amount of players to manage and support; I can imagine the support staff are spread thin, and Riot may want to consider this idea; although I am certain they have had it in the past.



Anywho, as I have been seeing more of is 14 day suspensions for minor infractions, cases where there have been little to no toxicity on the players part (not my own case, because I haven't even seen the logs even after requesting them, privately in player support, not PUBLICLY mind you), the majority of these cases are juvenile; something that could be overlooked, because the severity of which doesn't even meet the majority of the criteria listed in the section of the terms of use to become a 14 day suspension.


Last I had referenced the terms of use, the suspension/termination of accounts without due process, consent, or even reasonable justification section; didn't even exist, and must've been an addition to the terms of use fairly recent in accordance and response to the many requests/inquiries of those distressed by the lack there-of reason to these "disciplinary actions".


One side-note: Something that is considered "Otherwise Objectionable" is again, a broad term; and requires clarification.


EDIT:Quite a few of these bans were duely noted by the Riot staff to be excessive and unjust according to the offenses; as a result of the tribunals absence, one individual moderator is left to decide for themselves whether an offense is bannable, and being human; they make discrepances, and have faulty judgement, meaning you are at the mercy of a single individuals morality/opinion. But those summoners either had their suspensions severely reduced, or removed entirely; I can provide you with examples if need be.


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powerbats

Senior Member

10-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowmark2013 View Post
The last part was merely a suggestion in order for Riot to reduce the stress on themselves to support all of these overwhelming amount of support tickets being submitted primarily due to the change in their policies, what is considered toxic is arbitrary; when an individual claims another is toxic, they are usually going off their own inclination of what toxicity is and aren't properly educated.


Consistently toxic? Not entirely certain of that; I rarely ever get into any fights in a game unless engaged first by another summoners insults, after awhile if I notice such a conflict escalates far enough for their to be interference with the game, I will say; "Okay, let's just agree to mute each other, and play the damn game", and that's that. If I had numerous cases of toxicity over a short period of time, I am almost certain I would have received numerous chat restrictions before long; and additional warnings in s3 or s4, whenever riot made modifications to their policies once more (last I thoroughly reviewed the terms of use was S2), but anyways; what I get from what you've said so far, considering the fact you had a complete disregard for most of my suggestions, and only took the offensive as to explaining why I was banned, is that you don't believe that players in and outside of the game should be given additional tools to avoid conflict with other players, and maybe a little more responsibility placed on the player to avoid these conflicts on their own, as a game with such a large amount of players to manage and support; I can imagine the support staff are spread thin, and Riot may want to consider this idea; although I am certain they have had it in the past.



Anywho, as I have been seeing more of is 14 day suspensions for minor infractions, cases where there have been little to no toxicity on the players part (not my own case, because I haven't even seen the logs even after requesting them, privately in player support, not PUBLICLY mind you), the majority of these cases are juvenile; something that could be overlooked, because the severity of which doesn't even meet the majority of the criteria listed in the section of the terms of use to become a 14 day suspension.


Last I had referenced the terms of use, the suspension/termination of accounts without due process, consent, or even reasonable justification section; didn't even exist, and must've been an addition to the terms of use fairly recent in accordance and response to the many requests/inquiries of those distressed by the lack there-of reason to these "disciplinary actions".


One side-note: Something that is considered "Otherwise Objectionable" is again, a broad term; and requires clarification.


EDIT:Quite a few of these bans were duely noted by the Riot staff to be excessive and unjust according to the offenses; as a result of the tribunals absence, one individual moderator



Wrong, there were a few that were changed to chat bans after further review while quite a bunch more got escalated to perma bans. Also one individual moderator isn't making these decision but the entire Player Behavior department along with many other departments are involved.



is left to decide for themselves whether an offense is bannable, and being human; they make discrepances, and have faulty judgement, meaning you are at the mercy of a single individuals morality/opinion.



Wrong again, it's multiple people making the judgment and in the end it's still Riot's game so they decide what's allowable not you.


But those summoners either had their suspensions severely reduced,


Wrong, most had them slightly reduced and the few mistakes that were made on bans were removed. No one that got a 2 week or perma ban that was still deemed toxic after review got it completely removed or reduced to nothing.


removed entirely; I can provide you with examples if need be.



I already know which examples you're referring to and you're cherry picking here and ignoring everything else in those posts.




The 14 day bans are for extreme behavior including but not limited to racism, homophobia, death threats, intentional feeding and consistent toxicity. The chat logs shown are merely samples and to suggest the behavior is juvenile is quite sad. You're cherry picking what you want to see and feel the behavior is ok, it's not and Riot's the ones that say so. You also missed where it says in the sole discretion of Riot games in that part I quoted.



Lastly it hasn't been recently added at all and has been in place for years now and only part of the entire TOS/EULA has been updated.



TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT (TOU)
LEAGUE OF LEGENDSģ
Last Modified: October 23, 2012


Almost 2 years ago isn't recent at all and the suspension/termination did exist back when they created it. You didn't bother reading the agreement you clicked accept on. Also there is no due process here since this isn't the US court system. This is no different then going into any private business and violating their rules and them kicking you out or just because the following applies. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"




Riot's TOS/EULA is the same as countless others out there and you're not complaining to any of those other companies right now I bet. They don't need your consent to terminate the agreement since the game and the forums are Riot's private property and they merely lease it to you until you or they terminate the agreement.


The whole reasonable justification bit please, no company is forced to give you a reasonable justification if they don't want to when you're using their private intellectual property.


While we can all agree they need to do a better job of communicating the reasons for these bans, they aren't required to and most people know exactly what they're doing wrong. Back before Reform cards were even out there most people that got warnings or bans reformed because they knew what they were doing wrong. Reform cards were also tied into the old Tribunal and chat logs now have to be manually scrubbed of all other players names.




The chat logs you see are a random sampling usually of between 10-50 games if not more and it'd be stupid and pointless to do them all. What you think is ok and what Riot does are 2 different things and their's is the only opinion that counts.


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shadowmark2013

Member

10-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerbats View Post
The 14 day bans are for extreme behavior including but not limited to racism, homophobia, death threats, intentional feeding and consistent toxicity. The chat logs shown are merely samples and to suggest the behavior is juvenile is quite sad. You're cherry picking what you want to see and feel the behavior is ok, it's not and Riot's the ones that say so. You also missed where it says in the sole discretion of Riot games in that part I quoted.



Lastly it hasn't been recently added at all and has been in place for years now and only part of the entire TOS/EULA has been updated.



TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT (TOU)
LEAGUE OF LEGENDSģ
Last Modified: October 23, 2012


Almost 2 years ago isn't recent at all and the suspension/termination did exist back when they created it. You didn't bother reading the agreement you clicked accept on. Also there is no due process here since this isn't the US court system. This is no different then going into any private business and violating their rules and them kicking you out or just because the following applies. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"




Riot's TOS/EULA is the same as countless others out there and you're not complaining to any of those other companies right now I bet. They don't need your consent to terminate the agreement since the game and the forums are Riot's private property and they merely lease it to you until you or they terminate the agreement.


The whole reasonable justification bit please, no company is forced to give you a reasonable justification if they don't want to when you're using their private intellectual property.


While we can all agree they need to do a better job of communicating the reasons for these bans, they aren't required to and most people know exactly what they're doing wrong. Back before Reform cards were even out there most people that got warnings or bans reformed because they knew what they were doing wrong. Reform cards were also tied into the old Tribunal and chat logs now have to be manually scrubbed of all other players names.




The chat logs you see are a random sampling usually of between 10-50 games if not more and it'd be stupid and pointless to do them all. What you think is ok and what Riot does are 2 different things and their's is the only opinion that counts.

The existance of a conglomerate is only possible with a consumer base, without it; their intellectual property has no value, if the only individuals in their community were "toxic", meaning their only source of income, they would be forced to deal with it, because it's all they would have.


The only reason I am even saying any of this, is because their response and their take on this event wasn't my original impression of Riot, but apparently a corporate conglomerate will be a corporate conglomerate regardless, despite what their consumer base believes; especially once they've grown exponentially from where they had originally started.

Funny that you said terms of use was modified October of 2012, as I had read the Terms of Use two months(August) prior to that, and didn't quite expect them to change any time soon.


EDIT: Basically once they expand past being a million-dollar organization, the average consumer is expendable.


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powerbats

Senior Member

10-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowmark2013 View Post
The existance of a conglomerate is only possible with a consumer base, without it; their intellectual property has no value, if the only individuals in their community were "toxic", meaning their only source of income, they would be forced to deal with it, because it's all they have.


Riot has dealt with the toxicity whereas other online companies haven't, but now that other companies can see how well Riot's systems have helped reduce toxicity and grow the game they want in. Now other gaming companies are creating their very own versions of Tribunal.



The only reason I am even saying any of this, is because their response and their take on this event wasn't my original impression of Riot, but apparently a corporate conglomerate will be a corporate conglomerate regardless, despite what their consumer base believes; especially once they've grown exponentially from where they had originally started.


Riot isn't a corporate conglomerate and I don't think you even realize what that term truly means. "DEFINITION of 'Conglomerate' A corporation that is made up of a number of different, seemingly unrelated businesses. In a conglomerate, one company owns a controlling stake in a number of smaller companies, which conduct business separately." Most of Riot's consumer base doesn't even know about Tribunal because they're never affected by it and never will be because they're not consistently toxic.



Funny that you said terms of use was modified October of 2012, as I had read the Terms of Use two months(August) prior to that, and didn't quite expect them to change any time soon.


Well since you said you read those 2 months ago then you'd realize that October 23, 2012 is just under 2 years ago so you read legal documents that were at the time of you reading them 1 year and 10 months or so old. That would mean that they didn't change them anytime soon since the TOS/EULA were in place and modified almost 2 years to the date before you read them.



So unless you have a time machine and went back in time and created your account/read the document before they were modified your statements are wrong.


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shadowmark2013

Member

10-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerbats View Post
Well since you said you read those 2 months ago then you'd realize that October 23, 2012 is just under 2 years ago so you read legal documents that were at the time of you reading them 1 year and 10 months or so old. That would mean that they didn't change them anytime soon since the TOS/EULA were in place and modified almost 2 years to the date before you read them.



So unless you have a time machine and went back in time and created your account/read the document before they were modified your statements are wrong.

I don't quite understand your logic; but if you're reffrring to my username, it was changed from it's original, the 2013 was 2012, I changed my name accordingly when I had the resources to do so but realized how much a waste it was later on.



Anywho, I digress.When I had originally signed up for league August 6th, 2012(if I remember correctly). Once again; if I had realized they had made adjustments to their terms of use, I would have referrenced them once more, one of the primary reasons I had reviewed the terms of use was to check for anything to do with copyright; and whether or not it was appropriate (according to their terms of use) to post gameplay and content from Riot on media sites such as Youtube and Twitch, and was checking for what would be considered copyright infringement; as at the time, Youtube was scouraging their servers for copyrighted materials using an algorithm to detect such copyrighted content, that doesn't necessarily do very well as far as it's purpose goes, apologies for going into excessive detail, I had only felt it was necessary.


EDIT: I don't know many individuals who take the time to analyze the terms and conditions regularly, especially when it comes to gamers; to be honest, the very fact any individual invests a second of their time in doing so would probably come as a surprise to the majority of those within the League of Legends community.


NOTE: I realize conglomerate was the improper term for Riot, although also associated with Curse, isn't necessarily considered as much, I depend on another individual's ignorance to make a point, but regardless; I believe you understood the idea and thought I was trying to get across to you. Quite a few organizations before Riot have pieced together similar versions of the tribunal; but most of them were made for age groups of 5-12.(I hope this helps you see how redundant this all really is)

Also, the sentence itself applied to all major organizations, such as:Google, Microsoft, and Apple; although not stated within the sentence, I was basically expressing what the precedent for the majority of all major corporations was.



One Additional Un-related subject: For someone so willing to come to base for Riot, I have checked up on your stats; and it doesn't quite seem like you are a dedicated player, with an average of one game a week; and a consistent elo, with no ranked games whatsoever; to be quite honest, this comes as a surprise.


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powerbats

Senior Member

10-03-2014

Ok thanks for clarifying the date since it looked kinda strange you said that. Now for my ranking I play very little lately due to real life calling me but I did ranked season 3 and have been playing since mid season 1. I've had spurts this year where I've played lots and spurts where I haven't. My stats have no bearing on my ability to agree or follow Riots rules or interpret them and that is an excuse used by those usually that have nothing to back their arguments up with. I'm not saying that's what your doing but so far every time any of us here have seen that posted. Many of us here have smurfs we use so we don't get harassed in game by the forum trolls and toxic ragers in general so often you won't find many stats if any at all for some people here.




One of our posters who posts the same but in a nicer format than I is LargeSnorlax who's been as high as D1 so once he posts the exact same thing that argument falls flat and then the person tries a different tact. Riot and my friends know how much I've invested in this game and only riot knows how much money I've spent on the game which is quite a lot not including what's been spent on mine and my sons accounts. I wouldn't put so much into it if I wasn't dedicated to the game or the community or believe in what Riot's doing.




Also Riot's not aiming to stop- all toxicity since that's an impossibility but to lessen it's impact and go after the most obtuse and or most frequent offenders. Lyte did a presentation at MIT talking about it and the study showed(peer reviewed by the way) that showed most toxicity comes from 70% of the community with that being people merely having a bad day. The majority of the really bad toxicity comes from around 1-2% of the player base. Look up Lyte's MIT GDC presentation. It's a long video and there's a text part as well but it explains it all really well.



Lyte and Riot have already stated they realize people are going to have a bad day or 2 or 3 and the system accounts for it, but when someone has a bad day on average 12-25% more than the average summoner that's going to get Riot's attention. This isn't the occasional outburst but consistent toxic behavior that occurs and gets punished. It's not based upon reports per game but reported games in total over x time. Before Tribunal went down the average summoner was reported in around 0-4$ of games played while Ranked was around 4-8%. Toxic players however were being reported in between 12-50% or more of game splayed which is a staggering statistic.


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shadowmark2013

Member

10-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by powerbats View Post
Ok thanks for clarifying the date since it looked kinda strange you said that. Now for my ranking I play very little lately due to real life calling me but I did ranked season 3 and have been playing since mid season 1. I've had spurts this year where I've played lots and spurts where I haven't. My stats have no bearing on my ability to agree or follow Riots rules or interpret them and that is an excuse used by those usually that have nothing to back their arguments up with. I'm not saying that's what your doing but so far every time any of us here have seen that posted. Many of us here have smurfs we use so we don't get harassed in game by the forum trolls and toxic ragers in general so often you won't find many stats if any at all for some people here.




One of our posters who posts the same but in a nicer format than I is LargeSnorlax who's been as high as D1 so once he posts the exact same thing that argument falls flat and then the person tries a different tact. Riot and my friends know how much I've invested in this game and only riot knows how much money I've spent on the game which is quite a lot not including what's been spent on mine and my sons accounts. I wouldn't put so much into it if I wasn't dedicated to the game or the community or believe in what Riot's doing.




Also Riot's not aiming to stop- all toxicity since that's an impossibility but to lessen it's impact and go after the most obtuse and or most frequent offenders. Lyte did a presentation at MIT talking about it and the study showed(peer reviewed by the way) that showed most toxicity comes from 70% of the community with that being people merely having a bad day. The majority of the really bad toxicity comes from around 1-2% of the player base. Look up Lyte's MIT GDC presentation. It's a long video and there's a text part as well but it explains it all really well.



Lyte and Riot have already stated they realize people are going to have a bad day or 2 or 3 and the system accounts for it, but when someone has a bad day on average 12-25% more than the average summoner that's going to get Riot's attention. This isn't the occasional outburst but consistent toxic behavior that occurs and gets punished. It's not based upon reports per game but reported games in total over x time. Before Tribunal went down the average summoner was reported in around 0-4$ of games played while Ranked was around 4-8%. Toxic players however were being reported in between 12-50% or more of game splayed which is a staggering statistic.


All interesting facts, and imperical data... I don't usually stay in-touch or keep up with the exploits of the staff members at Riot, and I seemed to have jumped to conclusions a little too fast. I have never been too fond of Lyte ever since I have first caught wind of him; never had a very good relationship with any administrative staff in the past, as I have never really responded well to authority as a whole.

The only reason I had posted such a thread with a subject of the likes of this, is due to the shear amount of these issues being brought to attention in the forums, and lack of intellectual coverage of the sort; meaning... It doesn't seem like many individuals are pushing for improvement in Riot's tribunal system. But I myself have invested several hundred dollars in Riot myself, as I was already familiar with Curse and other companies affiliated with Curse, like Mojang.

I just had expectations for Riot that most likely exceded that of their capabilities, not entirely certain if I had mentioned that before; but our judgement can be clouded by anger and frustration, and nothing good comes as a result of that. My only wish is that companies would only regard the consumer in a way that doesn't trivialize their very nature, and that one day a system that is beneficial to all with extreme efficiency is developed.


With this thread I only hoped to bring awareness to this issue, most others have done so for selfish reasons; although I have received the ban myself, I am fairly certain of what I have done, only that I believe that the punishment is a little excessive. I only want Riot to shed some light on this issue, and allow their consumer base to be informed.


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powerbats

Senior Member

10-03-2014

While I agree the info's been lacking this really caught riot unawares so to speak since Tribunal was working fine and then all of a sudden it stopped creating cases as fast as it was supposed to so instead of say it doing (wag example here) building 10k cases a day it started doing less and less each day so it got down to where it might only be pumping out 100 case a a day to review.




When Riot tried to fix the problem they realized it was going to be a huge undertaking and wasn't really fixable instead they decided to bring Tribunal down while they worked to bring the newer Tribunal which was still in development out. The new afk/LeaverBuster bans as well as the intentional feeding bans and the newer ranked punishments along with the new bans were all supposed to be a part of how it incorporated things.



Currently they're testing things out on the pbe and then trying it live once they get bugs worked out. The newer Tribunal will be much faster so instead of it taking sometimes weeks to hand down a punishment it will happen within a day or days so warnings and time bans will go out quicker along with reform cards as well. Sadly reform cards were tied to the Tribunal algorithms and can't be auto emailed and pulled into chat logs so they only send out stuff if people ask for it.




Lyte did state that part of what's holding them back right now is that they're going to roll Tribunal out across all regions at the same time including those that didn't have it before. The issue they're having which surprised me being a tech nerd is that each different region is using different web tech to run on. So they can't use a 1 size fits all approach in getting it up.


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