Riot, can we talk about Today's Kat vs Last Year's Kat?

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Rhonin Greymane

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonfire10 View Post
Current kat I wouldn't put it past because it has magic pen and health and haunting guise is a great early game rush. And built with rylais it will do even more with all her aoe abilities. I wouldn't get it with old kat though, it's passive isn't as useful as another deathcap.
I always have and always will play carry Kat. Liandry's just has no place on carry Kat. I play Kat because she's fun to play. Much less now than old Kat because she's been dumbed down so horribly, but still fun.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonfire10 View Post
Current kat I wouldn't put it past because it has magic pen and health and haunting guise is a great early game rush. And built with rylais it will do even more with all her aoe abilities. I wouldn't get it with old kat though, it's passive isn't as useful as another deathcap.
You used that name in a Kat thread... Balls of steel
The thing with Liandry is it scales with current hp. Which makes it a dps item and not a finisher item. Kat, most definately, is a finishing champion. If there is ANY balance whatsoever in this game at the moment (which I agree is dubious due to how recent all the changes are), it shouldn't be bought.
And Rylai... The fact that it was the "horrid noobtrap" item that it was on old Kat, and that new Kat scales even worse with it due to Q not being considered single target anymore (and slows being less useful in general with the new ult) means I just can't justify getting it ever.


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bonfire10

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur little sister View Post
You used that name in a Kat thread... Balls of steel
The thing with Liandry is it scales with current hp. Which makes it a dps item and not a finisher item. Kat, most definately, is a finishing champion. If there is ANY balance whatsoever in this game at the moment (which I agree is dubious due to how recent all the changes are), it shouldn't be bought.
And Rylai... The fact that it was the "horrid noobtrap" item that it was on old Kat, and that new Kat scales even worse with it due to Q not being considered single target anymore (and slows being less useful in general with the new ult) means I just can't justify getting it ever.
Ya, I have nothing against rylais on current kat if you're building tanky magic pen. If you're going for survivability I think the health and extra all round cc is more useful than if you're going assassin kat. And like I said it synergizes with the magic pen item liandy's. I wouldn't recomend either on assassin kat either, but I can see why in the current meta people would build them on tanky magic pen kat. neither would be good built on old kat.


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mdiaz2828

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Kat is needed!


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bonfire10

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

bump


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Crownless Again

Senior Member

01-29-2013

I haven't posted on these forums in months, despite being an avid browser.

Now, I find myself logging on for this good cause. I miss my Kat. New Kat just isn't any fun. They took all of the intelligence out of her kit. As a long-time Kat player and avid follower of TiensiNoAkuma's streams/videos/guides (Scarra and Judy Monica are good but I like TnA ), it saddens me greatly seeing the creature Kat has become.

FotM, whined about as being "OP", picked by everyone and their grandmothers, button-mashing hell.

Kat used to be a niche champion that appealed to a select playerbase because of the very nature of being "high risk, high reward", and took timing and precision to play. You had to instantly pick out your path in teamfights to proc your passive and get those resets going. Now? I just jump in and start mashing everything. Sure, there's still timing involved, you still need to pick out squishies and blow them up, but it feels so much less demanding.

Riot's goal was to make Kat more viable in high-level play, and the high-level players aren't doing as well with the new Kat as they did with the old Kat. Look at their scores with Katarina this season versus last season.

I miss the old KI. The ability to send a knife down a minion wave and nerf a health potion severely was fantastic, as well as the element of deciding whether you wanted the extra damage out or the reduced damage in during a teamfight created many dynamic situations and integrated counterplay against different champions.

Yeah. I'm rambling. Sorry. I'm struck with nostalgia and regret that my favorite champion doesn't bring me any pleasure any more. I'd love to get a Rioter to post in here and offer some insight and perhaps placate some of the old Kat players who enjoyed her for who she was -- not who she is.

TL;DR: Bump.


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Qeeick

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

old kat


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Zeraphicus

Senior Member

01-29-2013

I don't get how people complain about your one ability being the "ONLY" escape. Many champs have none. Play safer or judge your combos damage better before going in...


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crownless Again View Post
I haven't posted on these forums in months, despite being an avid browser.

Now, I find myself logging on for this good cause. I miss my Kat. New Kat just isn't any fun. They took all of the intelligence out of her kit. As a long-time Kat player and avid follower of TiensiNoAkuma's streams/videos/guides (Scarra and Judy Monica are good but I like TnA ), it saddens me greatly seeing the creature Kat has become.

FotM, whined about as being "OP", picked by everyone and their grandmothers, button-mashing hell.

Kat used to be a niche champion that appealed to a select playerbase because of the very nature of being "high risk, high reward", and took timing and precision to play. You had to instantly pick out your path in teamfights to proc your passive and get those resets going. Now? I just jump in and start mashing everything. Sure, there's still timing involved, you still need to pick out squishies and blow them up, but it feels so much less demanding.

Riot's goal was to make Kat more viable in high-level play, and the high-level players aren't doing as well with the new Kat as they did with the old Kat. Look at their scores with Katarina this season versus last season.

I miss the old KI. The ability to send a knife down a minion wave and nerf a health potion severely was fantastic, as well as the element of deciding whether you wanted the extra damage out or the reduced damage in during a teamfight created many dynamic situations and integrated counterplay against different champions.

Yeah. I'm rambling. Sorry. I'm struck with nostalgia and regret that my favorite champion doesn't bring me any pleasure any more. I'd love to get a Rioter to post in here and offer some insight and perhaps placate some of the old Kat players who enjoyed her for who she was -- not who she is.

TL;DR: Bump.
While your point about the high level Kat players not doing so well anymore (and mind you, they're nerfing her again if PBE is representative) is valid, the Kat rework also had another goal: to give her more build variability because "all you ever do is rush gunblade anyway" (quote Phreak).

That goal also failed demonsterably, because right now, it's buy pen or don't buy damage items at all. No more AD scalings that do anything even remotely gold-efficiŽnt, no AP scalings to stack AP. For a champion that only brings damage to the table, removing scaling with all offensive stats is a bit odd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeraphicus
I don't get how people complain about your one ability being the "ONLY" escape. Many champs have none. Play safer or judge your combos damage better before going in...
I think you posted in the wrong thread. I don't really see the relevance, except that it's a statement about Katarina.

Players do say that Shunpo is her only real escape, because it is. Champions without any escapes are less played because that's a huge weakness (Huekaizer, Malzahar). Also, most mid laners do have ways of escaping ganks. Cho'Gath? His Q and innate tankyness are both escapes in some sense. Ryze has his snare. You might say "But Malzahar has a supress!". But that stuns him as well, so it's useless as a gank escape.

However, this thread isn't complaining about the blink on Kat's shampoo at all :/


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bonfire10

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Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeraphicus View Post
I don't get how people complain about your one ability being the "ONLY" escape. Many champs have none. Play safer or judge your combos damage better before going in...
Ya, and riot balances around that. Champions who don't have escapes, like darius for example, are supplemented with heavy cc and damage. Kat has no cc and sub par damage, so she is much more mobile than many other champions. There are still champions who are more mobile than her and have more damage, like fizz: 2 jumps, 2 aoe slows, aoe knockup, execute, and grevious wounds. He has more utility and cc than kat with more burst damage.

The problem is that ability isn't her escape, it's her initiate. And once she uses it she's guaranteed to be dead if she doesn't kill someone. Akali has a shroud to hide in, fizz has a second jump out, leblanc has a blink revert and another jump if necessary, eve has a slow cleanse movement speed buff.

While you're playing safer and judging when your damage will be sufficient, your team is left in a 4v5 with you on the sidelines waiting to either ks everybody or run away when your team loses the unfair fight. Old kat had great ranged aoe damage and was much more rewarded for good timing and positioning. This one is go in and spam to be helpful because you're just a tanky aoe ap damage dealer instead of an assassin.