Riot, can we talk about Today's Kat vs Last Year's Kat?

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bonfire10

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01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyhawke View Post
I feel like this is a "grass is always greener" situation.

Tons of people complained about Kat's extremely binary nature (if you don't stop her ult it's all over, but if you stop it, she's useless) and now people want it back? I agree she's an annoying champ, but I think mana costs (so she can't spam BB all day) would help fix that.
I don't understand people who want to give her mana. yes she has a spell that doesn't cost mana, why does everyone think that she is able to spam it or that it is good for her to spam it? You name one ap mid who could retaliate if kat tried to BB them. the only one's who might have trouble are pure skillshot champions, and even tehn that's the players' fault. Everytime you trade as kat you lose because you have **** damage BECAUSE of the fact that you don't have mana. Why aren't you complaining about vlad? That's true sustain. Not only does his Q do more damage and is on a short cd, but it also heals him. "But it's single target and kat's is aoe" So? Fully stacked tides of blood does far more damage than a kat's QW combo, and it's on a shorter cooldown with more range.. Not to mention it synergizes with his ult better.

So if you don't think champions should be able to spam abilities without mana, why not go after vlad, considering is the epitome of spam sustain.

Also good katarinas didn't care about cc. The point of old kat is you actually had good ranged damage, you didn't have to all in someone, although if the situation called for it and you timed everything well, you did a lot more damage than you do now. She had better ranged and better close-up damage. You just had to be skillful to get it, so riot had to throw that out and make her easy so the general public who have played 300 games could pick her up and destroy their friends at 800 elo.


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VanceStubbs

Senior Member

01-29-2013

What the hell is wrong with you people?

Old Kat? WHY?

No, really, WHY?!

Why do you want an ability that does NOTHING, why would you want absolute horrible wave clearing back?

Why? WHY?!

Seriously this is just a giant "I HATE DIFFERENT THINGS" thread.
You know what, bring back old Eve, permanent Invisibility ruined her...


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The Stallion

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanceStubbs View Post
What the hell is wrong with you people?

Old Kat? WHY?

No, really, WHY?!

Why do you want an ability that does NOTHING, why would you want absolute horrible wave clearing back?

Why? WHY?!

Seriously this is just a giant "I HATE DIFFERENT THINGS" thread.
You know what, bring back old Eve, permanent Invisibility ruined her...
Useless ability? Which one? The one that gave you free damage on everything and much utility?
You like current Kat that takes no skill at all?


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bonfire10

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01-29-2013

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Originally Posted by Merrin Rattas View Post
Wait, was Rylai's actually bad on Kat? Or good? I can't entirely tell from your statement.
Rylais is currently ok on kat, but it was always a nono amongst the better kat players before the rework. You're an assassin who's entire viability in a teamfight depends on you making someone dead. You need to go straight glass cannon, as much damage as possible in order to do this. Gunblade was always the best item for kat, and its slow was all the cc you needed (not that the slow is even necessary, I would have still bought it if it was just stats and the 300 damage passive). Even if you were to build defensively, you wouldn't want health. What is having an extra 300-500 health gonna do it you get CCd and focused? You might survive for half a second more. Better alternatives were banshees veil and zhonyas, but once again that's only if you needed to build defensively for some reason and were just options but not a must have for her build.

Tiensinoakuma: "Why would I buy rylais, it has health. I don't scale with health. I scale with ap."

It's simple efficiency. Health is always helpful, but kat needed damage over everything else.


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bonfire10

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01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanceStubbs View Post
What the hell is wrong with you people?

Old Kat? WHY?

No, really, WHY?!

Why do you want an ability that does NOTHING, why would you want absolute horrible wave clearing back?

Why? WHY?!

Seriously this is just a giant "I HATE DIFFERENT THINGS" thread.
You know what, bring back old Eve, permanent Invisibility ruined her...
That useless ability passively gave your ult an additional 240 base damage....
It gave you ranged harass in lane that allowed you to stop potion users and healers like vlad.
It gave you 35% damage reduction for 3 seconds when you shunpod into a teamfight.
It made your Q and E as well as your auto attacks do bonus damage on top of the scaling and base damage, making those two spells better than her current QWE, except you could actually level them first, instead of having to level 3 spells to get the same result.

And yes, old eve was broken... true stealth is a game changing mechanic that creates an omnipresence throughout the map. She forced all lanes to play cautiously by simply existing. The mechanic was beyond broken. And late game hyper carry ad eve was scariest thing ever. Her refreshing healing ultimate that gave the most movement speed and attack speed of any buff in the game let her stick to carries and gave her more teamfight snowballing than kat currently has. She is now safer and more guaranteed, but do you not understand that for extremely skilled players she was safe and reliable in their hands before?


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mdiaz2828

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01-29-2013

Well then I played Kat a bit wrong, cuz I liked building Rylai's on her before. I think the alternative idea for it was that it would add a slow to your ult as well, making the enemy less likely to get out of your range. That was the argument I heard FOR Rylai's on prework Kat.


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Xhandel

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01-29-2013

I really love the waveclear potential of reworked kat, but prefer old kat, just because was a high risk high reward champ, you needed to play smartly, learning when to enter a TF, when to pop up lotus, how to get the times to get the 2 benefits of your W in 1 single move, AND ENOUGH DAMAGE TO DEAL WITH THESE HIGH HEALTH STACKING CHAMPS that keep us bored this times.

And Riot keeps nerfeing the only resource kat have to contribute to the team: Damage, their AP rates lowered to be maybe the lowest AP rates in all the game, their base damage reduced every month, and the ****ing playability, that is the real problem, remains untouched.

Conclusion: they want to nerf kat to the ground again, to keep us 6 or more months with nothing, to then overbuff her again and repeat the process.


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FabulousJeremy

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Old Kat was best Kat.


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Xhandel

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01-29-2013

I hope some reds check this out, specially Statikk, Morello or Xypherous


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

01-29-2013

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Originally Posted by Rhonin Greymane View Post
It doesn't help that reds avoid polarizing issues like the Kat rework like the black plague. Or any type of disapproval, for that matter.
Exactly...

Even my most civil attempts to at least get some discussion going have been pretty futile since Kat beta. (Where I was afraid that the changes they did would turn Kat into somebody who WILL stomp low ELO's at the same time that she's not viable anymore in the same higher ELO ranges that old Kat was. Notice how TiensoNoAkuma (one of the few old Kat mains I know of who still plays her) is now on a 49% win rating with her compared to 60%, and Kat is getting nerfed next patch.)

Once they have changes in their minds, they'll do the changes for the better or for the worse. And if it was for the worse, there's no going back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xhandel
I hope some reds check this out, specially Statikk, Morello or Xypherous
Honestly from my attempts to actually talk about the issue (since beta), all I've gotten is 1 response in PBE saying "I'm sure it 'll be ok. I think that 1 minor side-issue you mentioned is not that significant, and we'll closely follow her up after the rework"

I honestly wonder if they even read the posts sometimes.
We all want old Kat back, but I don't know what the issue is. Every goal that Riot expressed for the rework demonsterably either failed or is inconclusive (S3 changes make balance issues a tough one to crack.) All I can think of is that they had other goals like "removing random bounces on her Q because the word 'random' is in it", or (most likely) "making her A LOT easier, because you can't make money on a champion that's too difficult to be accessable for players who don't have the time to try and learn the game"