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Riot, can we talk about Today's Kat vs Last Year's Kat?

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bonfire10

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Ezekiel73:
I personally love new Kat.


Have you played the old kat extensively?

hint: unless the account your posting with is a smurf the answer is no.


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netkitten

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
bonfire10:
I don't understand what you're trying to say.

If you're saying she was viable and it's not surprising that people could do well with her, why did you previously say that she was based on luck and not skill.


i say that she was unviable and so people cared that somebody could play her succesfully in high elo


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mdiaz2828

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
netkitten:
i say that she was unviable and so people cared that somebody could play her succesfully in high elo


Which proved she was viable. If she was able to be played at High Elo SUCCESSFULLY, that means SKILL was a bigger factor!


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bonfire10

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
netkitten:
i say that she was unviable and so people cared that somebody could play her succesfully in high elo


How does that address the issue that his success with her was based entirely on skill and not luck? What does people caring about it matter?


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netkitten

Senior Member

01-27-2013

did you ever read my that post? it wasn't about the success overall, it was about the damage output


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bonfire10

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
netkitten:
did you ever read my that post? it wasn't about the success overall, it was about the damage output


What else did you think skill was affecting... He's very skilled with her so he can do more damage with her than most other people. If you're saying her damage output still relies on luck then how did he being more skillful help? Did the game recognize that he was really good and force the enemy team to surrender? No, I think it was that he has great timing and positioning that allows him to reach katarina's highest possible damage output consistently.

And PS your last comment specifically quoted his overall success with her in high elo and not his damage output. Which doesn't matter because the two are going to be fairly correlated in most cases. Now you're just drawing lines to try to pick apart random points in my argument because you have no argument yourself.


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netkitten

Senior Member

01-27-2013

personally i think that the main thing which skill affects it's the ability to be in the right time in the right place, but picking your definition, k, he probably could do more damage on average than most of old kat players, but was that damage higher on average than the damage he can do with the new kat? remember, we were talking about old kat vs new kat damage
and anyway the damage of old kat was more unreliable and luck dependent


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bonfire10

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
netkitten:
personally i think that the main thing which skill affects it's the ability to be in the right time in the right place, but picking your definition, k, he probably could do more damage on average than most of old kat players, but was that damage higher on average than the damage he can do with the new kat? remember, we were talking about old kat vs new kat damage
and anyway the damage of old kat was more unreliable and luck dependent


"but was that damage higher on average than the damage he can do with the new kat?"

Yes it was.

"and anyway the damage of old kat was more unreliable and luck dependent"

That's kind of the whole point of showing he has had repeated success with kat in over 3000 instances. It can be MORE unreliable and luck dependent. But if you're so skilled to the point where it doesn't matter then you don't care if they make it more reliable or safe. All that did was making it easy for the majority of average players while reducing the overall damage. If the great players can get the maximum damage regardless of the unreliability, then they just took a damage decrease from the rework.

Let's simplify this to a example:
You have to roll a die.

If you get anything above a 1 then you get nothing, but if you get a 1, then you get 10 dollars. If somehow a person can always roll a 1, then they are happy with this game.

But then the game changes to:
If you get anything above a 2 then you get nothing, but if you get a 1 or a 2, then you get 5 dollars.

See how this person could be frustrated that they spent time learning how to roll a 1 specifically and get a great reward. Sure now it is easier for most people to get the reward, but it's still the same for him. Except now the reward is even less.

This is what happened with the kat rework. You can tell the person it's based purely on luck, but it sure is strange how he can roll a "1" 3000 times in a row.


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Katarìna

Senior Member

01-27-2013

I think we need to spam analogies for how Kat players feel about the rework and the ease with which she's picked up and learned now.


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mdiaz2828

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Katarìna:
I think we need to spam analogies for how Kat players feel about the rework and the ease with which she's picked up and learned now.


Kat being reworked is like Tetris being changed to only have straight line blocks.