VPVD#2 - The pet champion

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ploki122

Senior Member

01-26-2013

TL;DR : What kind of champion do you want? (Vote open)

Current Step : General concept
So, we've kinda know what direction to take for the pet, from there we can develop a general concept. The results showed that the hexpunk(hextech + steampunk) style was an attractive style, however the kind of pet swayed between dragon, penguin and mole... So pretty varied. For the single/multi, it was 6:5 last time I checked, so pretty even there too. Still, we can't stay there moping around about the results. For now we need to define what our champion will do.

Basically we need to draw out the lines of what will be his defining factors. Are his pet(s) more like Yorick's or Shaco's? Are they permanently out there with shared hp? A normal summon with no tether range? A weak but invincible pet (bad idea btw)? Do we want our champion to have 2 kits? One he uses when the pet is out, and another, weaker, that he can fall back to once the pet is dead? We need to outline our champion's gameplay.



Table of Content :
Post #1 :
- Current step.
- Table of content
- List of steps
Post #2 :
- About me
- About VPVD
- About the new map
Post #3 :
- My thoughts about every ideas

List of steps :
Step 1 : Brainstorm + Pet(s) What is a pet champion without his fellow? (Well, it's actually a normal champion, but I didn't want an actual answer.) So yeah, right now is the right time, imo, to determine what our champions' pet(s) will be. I'm gonna throw in some ideas as well, but for now, my role as an advisor won't be as useful (since the start of a champ is much more subjective than a map).
Result : Most probably steampunk, with a choice of penguin/dragon/mole or anything else. Multi-pet hsa a slight lead is pretty even.
Step 2 : General concept Now that we have our pets, it's time to define the "master". What kind of kit do we expect from him? Is he the master of his pets? Is he in harmony with them? Are they the one leading him? Does he have 5, 6, 9 or 22 abilities? What do?
Step 3 : Role Specifications
Step 4 : Ability Draft
Step 5 : Lore (relatively generic)
Step 6 : Abilities
Step 7 : Fluffies (stats, quotes, skins, etc.)


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ploki122

Senior Member

01-26-2013

About me :
Hello this is Ploki122, I've been on this subforum for about a year and an half, creating some champions, reviewing others, helping around a bit. I also took part in the council and left it a few months ago, but even though I left it, I plan on still helping around. My experience is roughly limited to 1.5 years of champcrafting on this forum, a little fantasy-crafting for Runescape and Battle for Wesnoth, and discussing with <deleted>, the Riot designer behind Vi, about design (although never mine nor his).

Otherwise, I'm a 21 years old Canadian, full-time studying in Computer Science at the Université de Sherbrooke, in Sherbrooke, Québec. Eventually I plan on working at Riot, either in design or technical QA, although QA is winning right now (but I would still most probably apply for both).

About VPVD :
First of all, what is VPVD? Pretty simple, it's Vox Populi, Vox Dei, a latin locution meaning the voice of the people [is] the voice of God. Why choose this title? because what i'll be doing here is start from an idea, give my impression, take your feedback/opinions, give my opinion impression on those, and like the poll that I used to create this topic, there will be a poll to know what path to take. So basically, while I'm the one who "owns" this thread, you guys are the one designing, while I'll be reviewing each and every ideas based of my experience in design, and my logic/feelings. As you could see, I added #2. VPVD#1 has been created a few weeks ago, and is doing relatively well (the topic being a new map).

Why create a thread such as this one? Well, first of all, I've got experience and knowledge that some apparently don't. I found this by reviewing certain threads and seeing how even though my opinion wasn't always shared, with a high frequency, the op usually ended up going my way (some times after a couple iterations, but meh, they're the one who lost time :P). So this is a way for me to pass such knowledge onto you all. Nothing forms knowledge as well and trial and error, and there will be a majority of errors in this thread.

About a pet champion :
Ok, so here is the harder part... Basically, a pet champion can be made in PLENTY of ways. Just with the current 110 champs, I can easily list 4-5 different champions whose pets play completely different (Annie, Heimer, Zyra, Yorick, Malzahar). So basically, each pets usually have pros and cons who reinforce a main objective. Basically, the pet's objective will define how the champion is meant to play. I know this may feel a bit hazy, but I'll do a rundown of those 5 champs and their pets, you should understand what I mean.

Annie/Tibbers :
Playstyle : A straight mage, does some sustained damage and a lot of burst while having minor defensive mechanisms.
Tibbers : An upfront burst + medium-damage DoT aura. Can be used to tank damages especially towers and monsters.
Similarities : A little defense, a little DoT/one control, a lot of burst. The DoT uses Annie's innate well.
Restrictions : The bear is slow and is on a pretty long cd, meaning it's simply a clutch move it turns a 5v5 fight into a 5v5.5

Heimerdinger/Turrets :
Playstyle : He offers a lot of zone control, but is kinda clunky if you fight on the opponents' ground.
Turrets : Small immobile minions that deals a lot of damage within a limited range. Can be killed from outside of their range.
Similarities : The player needs to set his plan up beforehand so that he can actually have the turrets and their initial boost alive and bursting enemies. On top of that, Heimer's Ultimate allows you to keep the enemy inside your controlled zone longer.
Restrictions : Like I mentioned, their smaller range paired with lack of mobility and relatively long cd to spawn them makes sure that you have to commit to your zone.

Zyra/Plants :
Playstyle : Zone Control + Long range poking/burst
Plants : She has 1 plant that does damage in a longer radius, and one who offers more zone control.
Similarities : This one is extremely straight forward... on top of that, the ZC plant is on the ZC spell, and same for damage. Her is simply a catalyst with a chunk of ZC added (but in the end, it is only a ZC chunk).
Restrictions : Limited time that they're up, making them quite mana expensive to keep up. Also they can be killed (although Riot made sure that it was as easy for a support to kill as it is for a carry).

Yorick/Ghouls :
Playstyle : This one is a bit more confusing... but I see Yorick as a monstrous tank with a lot of sustained damage and little to no burst.
Ghouls : Each of them allows for a little more tankyness, one has slow, one has MS boost and one has LS, all are useful for a tank.
Similarities : This one is pure synergy... Ghouls are simply a way to keep Yorick's burst in touch... they added a lifespan to them so that they could split up his power
Restrictions : The lifespan is limited and can be further reduced. Meaning that you can kill ghouls to keep his damage in check (although it doesn't reduce his tankiness)

Malzahar/Voidlings :
Playstyle : Another mage, although this one is more DoT oriented than Annie.
Voidlings : Tanky *****ies, if they stay alive, they get bulkier and stronger (AKA power over time). They focus the target that has your targeted DoT on (aka stronger DoT).
Similarities : DoT... period. I think DoT is pretty much Malz' only theme... Well, he has some CC too, and voidlings love when they're immobile since they're quite slow so...
Restrictions : They are created by burst, so unless you full combo, they won't always be up (which restricts the power over time that you have).

Elise/Spiderlings :
Playstyle : Elise is played well... like a spider. She pokes at the enemy, taking them low, and once they are low enough that they get stuck in her web, she bites, hard, often, for long, and kill you.
Spiderlings : The spiderlings target what Elise targets, they do a little bit damage than minions while being a bit more tanky too.
Similarities : Very few, they serve more as an added gameplay option than anything else. They give her the needed burst when low, while adding counter play. Also. he spawns them as she pokes, and use them as she dive in for the kill, which is nice.
Restrictions : They can be killed quite easily, don't do a lot of damage unless W is running and she has to spend time in human form to get them back.


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ploki122

Senior Member

01-26-2013

My thoughts about every ideas

bring' em in, or I can't say...


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ploki122

Senior Member

01-26-2013

a small bump to get some ideas about what the pet/mechanisms/lore/name/title/concept/art/sound/etc. could be. As for pets, here are a couple of ideas :

- A penguin (so probably Freljord-related)
- A dog/warg (even played fetch with a bone that's still attached?)
- Chameleon (obviously includes stealth)
- Various small critters (more Yorick-like), maybe a bird, a cat and a turtle.
- Steampunk/Clockwork monster(s)
- Totems


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Zarkof

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Pet champions you missed: Orianna (her ball companion), Viktor (his ult is like a short duration Tibbers), Mordekaiser (Children of the Grave)

Some things that I've put into my champion concepts that include pets are a summonable turret that lasts a short duration but hits hard, summonable animal companions (similar to Yorick's ghouls), and a pet like Malzhar's voidlings that stays by your side until you attack then it attacks that target, or if you use certain spells it gains buffs or hits the target of your spell harder, and if it is alive then one of your spells also grants you a buff from the pet.

The main problem with a fully controllable, indefinite pet that grants vision: Free mobile ward. If you can have your pet move around freely with infinite duration, you can play bot lane and have it roam brush and the river entrance, preventing all kinds of ganks. In order to balance that, you need to make it non controllable (like voidlings) but also have ability synergy between your pet and your spells.

It is easier to balance duration and health based pets since you can determine the maximum or average value that they can deal based on their duration and dps. It is hard to balance a permanent pet so that it is effective but doesn't deal too much damage or provide you with outrageous benefits.


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ploki122

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Actually, you haven't even grazed the troubles there...The real problem with permanent pets user is tower dives. If their pet is unkillable, you can 100% safely zone the enemy under their tower. If their pet has a short respawn, as long as you play well, it's quite easy to win trades wherever you are. If it respawns on a longer timer, it has to be stronger in counter part, but the delay can't be too long, or it'll be easy to crush the champion if he's losing. So basically, pet champions are a real mess to deal with...

As for those I missed, I consider Viktor, Mordekaiser and Shaco similar to Annie (Annie and Heim for Shaco), as for Orianna, I don't even consider her a pet champion... the pet and the champion can't do anything of themselves, they need one another (Imagine if you could kill the ball, how useless would Ori be?). Other champions that could be considered pet champions that I omitted includes Nid/Cait with their traps who are actually very restricted minions, Maokai with his saplings, because they're low damage uncontrollable monster and Wukong's clone and Leblanc's, because once again, it offers nothing much of itself.

I did forget Elise however, and I plan on adding her later on.


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ploki122

Senior Member

01-27-2013

bump for more participation, I will most probably create the poll tomorrow, hoping for some suggestions before then.


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ploki122

Senior Member

02-01-2013

sorry for the absence, school had me busy, I now have at least the weekend to toy with this, so bring in some Ideas for the champ while I create the Poll


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Devinatiol

Senior Member

02-02-2013

We have a plethora of bird champions (none of which are pet champions but still for thematics) . from Swains Raven to Jannas Sparrow, we have Fiddles crows and Ashes Hawk then of course Anivia herself... BUT I have always thought a support champion with an Owl pet would be very nice, the pet could be kill but would respawn when she went back to base. This champ would have a very Native theme and be focused on spiritual buffs and debuffing the enemy with limited damage, while the owl gave her very potent damage and vision. Or a pet/mount a champion who rides a pet then can dismount the creature and use it for a aoe presence... to remount you would have to actually go back to your pet and click on it like thresh's lantern.


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The Lord Impaler

Senior Member

02-03-2013

I pointed out in anther thread that the only way you could have a PERMANENT PET is if it and the main champ have a shared life-pool, anything short of that is just a recipe for lame tower-diving, suicide runs at the enemy or infinite free warding. So long as this rule is obeyed then such a champ has great potential to be unique, fun and interesting (though complex to play).


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