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Kages Lucky Pick Worth it? GP10 Items

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Cajete

Member

01-25-2013

Hello everyone, I'm a 1440 Elo player looking for some math and reasoning behind GP10 items as well as advice on their worth. I'm currently conflicted and don't really understand when and why it is appropriate to buy a GP10 item. Let me clarify and further elaborate. As far as support goes, I understand why support needs GP10. I'm speaking more specifically Mid lane and Top lane, and to narrow it down more Kages Lucky Pick.

To understand my question better, take a look at my math and the proposed example.

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Kages Lucky Pick (765g)
4 gold every 10 seconds = 24 gold per minute

* 30 min = 720g - 765g = -45g (debt)
* 35 min = 840g - 765g = +75g (profit)
* 45 min = 1080g - 765g = +315g (profit)
* 60 min = 1440g - 765g = +675g (profit)

(Add the 1:30 for Minion Spawn/Ambient Gold)

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When I see this I ask myself, is it really worth spending 765 gold on an item which starts to give me profit at 34 minutes into the game? By 36 minutes you've only made 315g after the item has been recompensed for. This is without factoring in the time at which you bought the item.

For example, 35:00 min + X:YZ min (in game time you bought the GP10 item.

Let me explain:

Your going mid, you start with 475g. You buy Boots and 3 Health Pots. According to Ambient Gold, which is 16GP10, you'd have enough to buy a Kages Lucky Pick at 9 minutes and 30 seconds into the game. 8 minutes of Ambient Gold equals 768g, and if you factor in the time at which Ambient Gold starts (1:30) that's 8 minutes + 1:30 = 9:30 + 35:00 = 44:30.

In conclusion, this is all without factoring in things such as kills, creep score, runes and Masteries, but even still, it seems that in essence, it's an item with minimal worth.

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Questions:

  • 44 minutes and 30 seconds later, was it worth the gold it took to buy?
  • How many minutes into a game is it to late to buy a GP10 item?
  • If your behind in lane, by CS or Kills, is it worth buying this item? Or any other GP10 for that matter?

Any advice, any links to further elaborate and/or clear up any confusion, please send them my way. Any help appreciated! Thank you for your time!


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Shockforce

Senior Member

01-25-2013

You forgot to factor in the base stats of the item. But yes, it is a bit inefficient.


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Cajete

Member

01-25-2013

Quote:
Shockforce:
You forgot to factor in the base stats of the item.


Right, but what I'm trying to get at is, is it worth holding onto for a little while, or at all? Take Philo for example, you don't generally rush it into a Shurelya's Reverie before a certain amount of time, otherwise, the items GP10 doesn't recompense for itself, and essentially you've lost gold rushing a Shurelya's.

Philosopher's Stone (700g)
+5 gold every 10 seconds
30 gold per minute

30 min = 900g - 700g = +200g
35 min = 1050g - 700g = +350g
45 min = 1350g - 700g = +650g
60 min = 1800g -700g = +1100g


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Rafein

Senior Member

01-25-2013

I don;t think rushing it, just to have, is a good idea. You could be buying better items to let you win/control the lane better, which would make up for the extra gold you can make from a Pick. If your going to build something with it later, then Yes, grab it early and let it sit for a while.

Kage's Pick is really nice right now, probably the best GP/10 item now, since it builds into several useful items later on. It's now used in Will of the Ancients, so if your planning on grabbing this for spellvamp, then grab an Early Kage.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
Cajete:
I'm speaking more specifically Mid lane and Top lane, and to narrow it down more Kages Lucky Pick.
Kages Lucky Pick (765g)
4 gold every 10 seconds = 24 gold per minute
* 30 min = 720g - 765g = -45g (debt)
* 35 min = 840g - 765g = +75g (profit)
* 45 min = 1080g - 765g = +315g (profit)
* 60 min = 1440g - 765g = +675g (profit)
(Add the 1:30 for Minion Spawn/Ambient Gold)

You can't adjust your figures for the minion spawn/ambient gold start. That would assume that you bought the thing at the beginning of the game. Unless you get first blood gold within a minute and started with an Amp tome.........yeah right.

I think that you are basically asking for a gold source more than anything else. My advise on that is:
You can't have bad CS and count on GP/10 items for income.

Also, what are you doing with the pick? Are you using it for damage as well? I sure hope so. If you have good/excellent AP ratios, it is definitely in your advantage because it can get you CS and lane dominance with it's AP.

Are you going to use it in part of your full build? If yes, then it accelerates your full build by all means. IF NO, then you need to consider the 382g that you get from selling that thing. That moves you 955 seconds (15m 55s) closer to your profit margin.

On a personal note: I love the lucky pick on jungle Rengar. I take it right after I finish the Madred's because it adds 20 damage to his roar. (which I max) That allows his clear time to spike by a LOT. Combine that with the passive gold and he starts to roll it in.


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GurkenMAN

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
Shockforce:
You forgot to factor in the base stats of the item. But yes, it is a bit inefficient.


That and the fact that its sellable/upgradable.
Main problem is it delays your corebuild but pricewise its quite good.


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67chrome

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Gold per 10 isn't the only attribute gold per 10 items offer - so trying to get them to give you free health regeneration, mana regeneration, ability power, or critical strike chance when you actually have to purchase such things on other items is silly. When you take out the price of the base stats on such items I've found (at least in season 2) the actual gold per 10 attribute takes less than 10 minutes to start generating money. Philosphere's Stone actually offers so much regeneration the gold per 10 portion is effectivly free, while a season 2 Avarice Blade, Kage's Pick, and heart of Gold required something along the lines of 3, 6, and 9 minutes to start generating gold.


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Plague of Gripes

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Like others have said, you're also getting a little bit of value from the base stats, although not much. You could assign a value to that, I guess. 400 gold? 300? Either way, you'll turn a small profit about five or ten minutes earlier if you look at it that way. Phil Stone is the lesser of the two, as it doesn't really build into anything useful, so you're buying it outright for the gold. Kage's can also be fruitless unless you have a specific kind of build that will use something like WotA.

They probably should have a different functionality other than ambient gold income. Maybe a tank version that grants gold per health regained over time, or a damage version that grants extra gold on a kill, and all of them build into ordinary items, except plus an additional tier step. But what to do.


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FreeGothitelle

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
Plague of Gripes:
or a damage version that grants extra gold on a kill, and all of them build into ordinary items, except plus an additional tier step. But what to do.

Uhhh
Avarice blade? Builds into atmas and stattik shiv.

Heart of gold used to be the "tank" gp10 item (builds into randuins, gives a nice amount of health straight up), but everyone built it because of how extremely effective it was. (tops built it, junglers built it, supports built it, mids could build it if they faced a lot of burst)

And so it was removed, sightstone is the replacement which is still good for supports and junglers.


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phromic

Member

01-30-2013

gold gain really isn't bad even for a carry .why not get a little extra gold before u recall to build it into whatever . it builds into several nice items . saying even if you build into a will of the ancients or what ever right away . for the five minutes or however long you got some extra gold . sounds good to me


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