Win early, lose late

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Warlord Buwberry

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Senior Member

01-28-2013

Only reason why Team 2 is able to take windmill back after death after death, is the fights were really close and you probably have 1 team member alive at low health or vice versa and you have to use a revive to stop team 2 from taking your tower. The winning team should have a revive advantage and jungle advantage and shouldn't be given up easily(aka don't revive unless necessary and get aggressive and ambush wisley.) If you allow team 2 to get position on you, you've already let your jungle advantage go. Team 2 does have to find you with vision to get a good fight in and if they beat you under your tower, you had tower advantage and shouldn't have lost or they just have more poke then you and that's a team comp problem.

Or if you pick garen, panth, insert 2 others here, you should win early and winning later game will be tougher because garen and panth go from really strong to just strong late game. Team 2 could have had a kitey caster, strong tank, ranged ad, and bruiser which would lose early game, but win late game. Respawn timers are a tunnel visioners worst nightmare. Forget they revived(or they just pressed revive) by not pressing tab and you get outnumbered and lose your tower. Not really a client issue 80% of the time. Yes i've lost games do to respawn timers, but always there was human error involved 100% of the time.


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IDontWasteFood

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez Obama View Post
Sorry, just struck me like talking about SR. You can farm and get buffs on this map, but it won't make quite te difference that it would there .

In an ideal setting, one would lose the game or win the game based on the team's play. There are certain rules to the game. The question then becomes, what do we want the rules of the game to be?

Right now, you basically want a team that heavily emphasizes late game for greatest guarantee of success. If you fall behind, you will get some rubber banding to help you. Is this what we want? It's not a bad thing necessarily. From what I understand, it is why support carry lanes took over kill lanes with bruisers. Along with maximizing gold efficiency, if your lane fails you can fall back on outscaling.

I disagree with the way this has been executed on this map IF it is meant to be a competitive mode. Rubber band mechanics are often incorporated in games that are meant to be casual ( think Mario party and Mario kart mechanics ). It can help keep games close and therefore more exciting.

If other games had respawn mechanics similar to dominion, it would most likely make them less competitive, since it introduces awkward rules (respawn window) and helps the loser catch up through nothing that they did on their own.

Now, dominion can't simply chop these mechanics out without other changes, otherwise early teams would just control the map and 5 cap eventually.

What can be done? I can make another post later on my thoughts. Hard to type on a mobile.
I completely agree. People are trying to come up with a defense for respawn timers using human error but that's not the issue. The issue isn't playing around the mechanic. The issue is why is the game helping out the losing team if this is supposed to be competitive. In a competitive game you are going to have some games where one team gets stomped, and games where it's very close, that's just how it goes. If you created a game where it's impossible to have a close game without a rubber band mechanic then the game can't be taken seriously, especially when it's blind pick with random team mates.

I can't understand the mentality where you are happy with a win because the game babied you into barraging the other team with constant respawns. Why would you want the game to give you an advantage in a competitive game? It does not make any sense.


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SirLucious LftFt

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDontWasteFood View Post
I completely agree. People are trying to come up with a defense for respawn timers using human error but that's not the issue. The issue isn't playing around the mechanic. The issue is why is the game helping out the losing team if this is supposed to be competitive. In a competitive game you are going to have some games where one team gets stomped, and games where it's very close, that's just how it goes. If you created a game where it's impossible to have a close game without a rubber band mechanic then the game can't be taken seriously, especially when it's blind pick with random team mates.

I can't understand the mentality where you are happy with a win because the game babied you into barraging the other team with constant respawns. Why would you want the game to give you an advantage in a competitive game? It does not make any sense.
i think the point of the rubberbanding in general is to not choke out end game teams too much.
its meant as a way to make the game fairer, but i totaly agree atm it does not do its job.

I agree the rubberbanding is terrible, but i can understand why there should be mabey a tad.
The argument can easily made though that the end game team should at least be able to defend themselves enough to get to end game.
i wouldnt mind them being at least more aggresive in messing around with it. Lower it a tad and see. or lower it all the way and add a bit more if its necesary.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDontWasteFood View Post
I completely agree. People are trying to come up with a defense for respawn timers using human error but that's not the issue. The issue isn't playing around the mechanic. The issue is why is the game helping out the losing team if this is supposed to be competitive. In a competitive game you are going to have some games where one team gets stomped, and games where it's very close, that's just how it goes. If you created a game where it's impossible to have a close game without a rubber band mechanic then the game can't be taken seriously, especially when it's blind pick with random team mates.
The difference between this and most competitive games is that the players don't get stronger as the game progresses based on their past performance. For example, in an FPS, you don't gain a gold advantage and wind up with vastly better weaponry than your enemy.

In football, the players don't level up and gain decreased cooldowns on abilities that instantly kill the enemy team members.

In soccer, the players don't buy better shoes to run faster, mid-game.

The goal of Dominion was to create:
1) Fast-paced gameplay
2) Team-oriented objectives
3) Reduced snowball effect of the 'late-game' and 'gold advantage'

Now, I'm not defending the rubber-banding, but in order for Dominion to maintain it's differentiating features, there has to be a mitigation for snowballing. For myself, and I suspect others, watching SR gets boring because you can typically predict the winner after the first 15 minutes of a 30-45 minute game.

How do you mitigate snowballing without 'helping' the losing team?

In my personal experience, I've never lost a major lead without significant human error (cocky aggressiveness, over extension, poor positioning, poor decision making). I have no personal issue with the respawn timers acting as they do. In my experience, even at the shortest respawn, after winning a fight you'll still get back up there faster or at the same time if you hit B, buy, and run back in to the fray. Some would rather dilly dally in the jungle or try to push mid...


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