Tips for a bot lane player?

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K rent

Senior Member

01-24-2013

I like the importance of bot lane in dominion, if your doing well it draws attention away from top making it easier to cap. But I seem to not be doing good enough because my last 4 games 3 of which I dominated bot lane ended as losses. That one game I didn't dominate was syndra (me) against a darius but i was able to keep him from capping our bot. in those 3 games there was at least one person on the enemy team that would be 17/5. How am I supposed to deal with this when they dive me bot? I'm starting to think that bot lane has no impact even though it does...

I usually run revive and either ignite or exhaust when i go bot. Looking for advice.


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ricedream5

Senior Member

01-24-2013

For your question, if you take Revive-Garrison and a tankier champion bot, you should be able to hold better against turret dives. Oftentimes, though, it's not possible to hold the turret at all, and it would be best to just run away.

I feel like botlaner can't carry a game unless you're really, really good even if sometimes it appears as if you were winning lane. What often happens is that you're winning bot, but you've pushed to their turret, and a gank comes along that sets your entire team back because now they have to cover bot. You need pretty awesome map awareness to avoid death, and that's far more important than pushing the waves/farming. I've had countless games where, say, some Yorick or Zyra throws the game by being always overextended even if they've been ganked/killed multiple times already by that Kassadin/Khazix, but somehow still think they were winning bot simply because their champion has better pushing power.


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K rent

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricedream5 View Post
For your question, if you take Revive-Garrison and a tankier champion bot, you should be able to hold better against turret dives. Oftentimes, though, it's not possible to hold the turret at all, and it would be best to just run away.

I feel like botlaner can't carry a game unless you're really, really good even if sometimes it appears as if you were winning lane. What often happens is that you're winning bot, but you've pushed to their turret, and a gank comes along that sets your entire team back because now they have to cover bot. You need pretty awesome map awareness to avoid death, and that's far more important than pushing the waves/farming. I've had countless games where, say, some Yorick or Zyra throws the game by being always overextended even if they've been ganked/killed multiple times already by that Kassadin/Khazix, but somehow still think they were winning bot simply because their champion has better pushing power.
in my last game i played riven against a nunu, I could easily kill him and either cap or neutral his tower. But up at top there was a wu that went 17/4 and took over for nunu who had bc and frozen mallet. Nunu would come try to bd my tower so i was forced to hug it clearing waves and getting dove while top can't even cap theirs. I feel like I'm at the mercy of my teammates in dominion... my other 3 games were exactly the same scenario.


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NavyGothic

Senior Member

01-24-2013

There's three elements to winning bot lane.

1) "Win" your lane. This depends on your skill and also the matchup. (There's some lanes where you just won't win without a massive skill differential, and it goes both ways)

2) Map awareness. Know when it's safe to push, and when you need to retreat. Know when to bait out your opponent, or when it's safe to retreat to buy, or when you just need to stall a bit longer.

3) Team support. Unless it's a horribly lopsided matchup that you can steamroll, you can't win the game by yourself, so don't try to! Be communicative - ask for ganks if you need it. Ask for help taking the enemy tower.

You can excel at the first, and still fail by not handling the second or third aspects well. And sure, sometimes you can be doing everything right, and still lose. Maybe your team sucked, maybe the enemy team was exceptionally good, whatever. Losses will happen.


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

01-24-2013

I've played over 2k games of dominion, with at least a third of those as botlane. Cant win em all. You will get games where your top is simply outclassed and hangs you out to dry bot, but there will also be games where they're neck and neck and that perfectly timed botlane neutralise will swing the tide in your favour.

I play an assload of Riven botlane. I don't even care about whether or not I win the game anymore when playing her, as long as I learn something new against different teamcomps everytime.

Most importantly, take everything your teammates say about you losing bot due to interference with a grain of salt. If someone ever makes a comment about why you don't have your turret when its being camped by zyra and alistar, just instant ignore them and farm minions passively until your team figures out that they should probably help you get it back.

Attitude and approach is just as important as hero picks and communication.


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Rewenger

Senior Member

01-24-2013

First thing to win bottom lane in most cases, you must have the correct character. Character must be capable of pushing (preferrably ranged AOE skills) and be good duelist. If you face an opponent who might be great duelist, but can't push well, you abuse it and win. If you face an opponent who have a great pushing power (Malzahar), you can counteritemise against him (QSS) and devastate him 1v1.

One of the characters i consider the best:
- Talon: W+Q oneshots the wave at some point, he is scary 1v1 and flexible in decisions.
- Maokai: great clearing power with his Sapling, pretty hard burst and sustainable. Hard gap-closer.
- Heimerdinger: nuff said. Probably the most annoying **** you ever find at bottom lane, if played well. If he captures a bottom lane, it may take a great effort to exterminate him turtling there.
- Swain: after lvl 6 can eat a whole wave, literally consumes everyone who comes closer. With counteritemisation can easily win against bruisers.
- Elise: spiderlings are good for pushing, a variety of tools to win fights, high sustained damage.
- Ezreal: can use his superior range, flexible in itemisation, can buy items to push as well as to murder in 1v1.
- AP Master Yi: very tricky opponent to face, incredible pushing power, ungodly sustain etc.
And so on. Probably someone else. Don't think Riven is really good because you can just push in her face and she WILL BE FORCED to use her spells to clear the wave, rendering her very vulnerable. Sustain is questionable even with lifesteal.

The main point is controlling health relics and consider your health as well as your enemy's. Win your lane, duel your opponent, push/murder opponent. Assist ganks and cap, predict ganks and escape. After successful cap you may go top and cap something or turn the fight around.

Very important is itemisation against your opponent, probably more important than at top lane in Summoner's Rift. Armor is countered by armor penetration, health by damage values. Some items counter champion's specific mechanics (QSS against Malzahar and someone else). Lifesteal counters harass. Health and resists counter burst. Invulnerability (Wooglet) does so as well. And so on.


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Phourc

Senior Member

01-24-2013

I forget who said it, but there was a quote that I absolutely loved that goes something like "As soon as I realized I need to constantly gank bot, I shot up 200 Elo." Really, a lot of bot lane falls to the rest of your team and their ability to help you without hindering themselves in top lane.

Thusly, a lot of your personal strength in bot lane comes from your ability to direct your team (and their ability to listen). If things are going badly, but before they get out of hand, try asking for a gank. "Hey guys, Darius is a beast can I get [assassin] to come break his kneecaps?" Don't forget to thank them and give them a nudge in the right direction, if an ally is overstaying his welcome I often say something along the lines of "Thanks, I got it from here! ^^" or "Thanks for the gank, think you can neutral?" (Pinging the tower helps).

I mean, it doesn't always work, but communication is always worth the attempt - just don't get too frustrated if your team tunnel visions and forgets about the southmost towers. Cause that ****, totally happens. ):


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SeCKS Egai

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krent8 View Post
I like the importance of bot lane in dominion, if your doing well it draws attention away from top making it easier to cap. But I seem to not be doing good enough because my last 4 games 3 of which I dominated bot lane ended as losses. That one game I didn't dominate was syndra (me) against a darius but i was able to keep him from capping our bot. in those 3 games there was at least one person on the enemy team that would be 17/5. How am I supposed to deal with this when they dive me bot? I'm starting to think that bot lane has no impact even though it does...

I usually run revive and either ignite or exhaust when i go bot. Looking for advice.
Bot will rarely get a pretty score, but is definitely a crucial aspect. If you can prevent them from capping your tower, that's a solid performance. (Unless of course they don't send anyone bot). Capping their bot is great - but if it leads to losing your own then it will usually have done more harm than good.

Pushing is helpful, but Bot lane is definitely prone to ganks, especially if the opposing team struggles to cap top.

Yorick and Heimer can be pretty solid performers bot, and Yorick probably has one of the easiest learning curves being one of the most annoying champs to lane against.


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aznskillz1

Junior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phourc View Post
Thusly, a lot of your personal strength in bot lane comes from your ability to direct your team (and their ability to listen). If things are going badly, but before they get out of hand, try asking for a gank.
The problem is, most of my teammates don't have a clue how to gank properly. When I've asked for ganks, I've seen 3 or 4 people come running bot (we lose top because there's 0 or 1 person left to defend), or recall and come running over our bot turret on their way to help (in which case the enemy bot laner sees them from a mile away and backs off to their turret). In these cases (which happen quite often), my asking for help/gank bot can do more harm than good.

Is there anything I can do about this?


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

01-25-2013

Sometimes, you really need to hammer the obvious home to people

"Hey fizz, yorick has 200 armor and 30 MR, swing by bot when you get the chance"
"Rammus, this ahri doesn't have mercs and her ulti is on cd, come from behind and taunt her, would you?"

Sometimes the obvious "gank bot" isn't always the right thing to do

"Leblanc, you cant kill singed, just ninja his turret while he's at our end, I'll hold him here"

"Teemo, there's no way in hell you can gank a zyra with zhonya's under her own tower. Shroom healthpack and bottom bushes"

"Wukong, go bot NOW Shaco gonna bd" (remember to ping incessantly)

"Don't try and bd their mid when they have more people alive than us; wait until you know where all 5 enemies are before you even think about it."

Sometimes I think people do what I say just so I'll stop filling the chat box.


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