If Master Yi's Meditate doesn't keep him alive in teamfights, it needs to be remade.

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Galgus

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

@ doubleguac:

That wouldn't be enough for the ability to be remotely reliable as a lifesaver in team-fights.

I have been jungling as AD Yi and building him as a glass cannon with reliable results- the key is to go in after a fight starts and CC is blown, cut down a carry at Talon speed, and go from there if able.

In order to be a true Melee ADC, a champion cannot be at all durable stat-wise: Jax is a fighter who can carry games, but he isn't really in Yi's niche.

To be honest, glass cannon AD Yi plays like an assasin that will win a teamfight if not focused, and relies on timing to prevent that.

(Although your team needs another real source of damage- usually a Ranged ADC- to force the enemy team to use their CC to initiate rather than save two ults and a stun for you.)


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Ergheis

Senior Member

01-24-2013

AP Yi does not DESERVE to stay alive in teamfights. AP Yi is supposed to be a refreshing, guaranteed hit snowballer. If he was supposed to be a tank, he would be more of a sustained tank.

At the moment he's just a binary "if-you-don't-cc-the-heal-you-lose" champion. That's not fair, and if it was then we need to give single-target spellvamp to Katarina's abilities and let Swain's Snare refresh on kill.


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Felaedor

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galgus View Post
@ doubleguac:

That wouldn't be enough for the ability to be remotely reliable as a lifesaver in team-fights.

I have been jungling as AD Yi and building him as a glass cannon with reliable results- the key is to go in after a fight starts and CC is blown, cut down a carry at Talon speed, and go from there if able.

In order to be a true Melee ADC, a champion cannot be at all durable stat-wise: Jax is a fighter who can carry games, but he isn't really in Yi's niche.

To be honest, glass cannon AD Yi plays like an assasin that will win a teamfight if not focused, and relies on timing to prevent that.

(Although your team needs another real source of damage- usually a Ranged ADC- to force the enemy team to use their CC to initiate rather than save two ults and a stun for you.)
Honestly, forget Riot's definition of Carry.

It's ****.


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Aquamarius

Junior Member

01-24-2013

Are you talking about the Meditate changes currently on the PBE? Those changes are buffs, in my opinion. It seems like an AP Yi nerf at first glance, but the fact that all of the healing is done over 3 seconds rather than 5 as well as the base value increase means you get more hp/sec than the old Meditate unless you have high AP. So basically the new Meditate is better than the old one in every way except when using it for sustain when you have high AP, and using it in-combat (where there's a good chance you can't get the full heal and the hp/sec matters more than the total heal) when you have really really high AP. Even on AP Yi, it'll give a lot more healing on lower levels.

EDIT: Jesus christ so many posts. I shoulda refreshed before posting x.x


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Galgus

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felaedor View Post
There's a difference between "keep you alive in a teamfight" and "heal you to full when 3-4 people are constantly beating on you".

It's getting partially re-buffed, but there's no denying it was slightly too effective before if you tracked CC well. That and you didn't need to get a full med off to heal to full either.
Isn't that what keep you alive in a teamfight really is, though?

If it can't be allowed to be strong enough to keep him alive in team-fights, it needs to be reworked to do the job in another manner.

(Or to another role entirely.)


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Galgus

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Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleguac View Post
It's not better than a dash because it can't be used defensively or for positioning. It helps you get to the enemy team, but that's ALL it does. It can only be used to jump to enemies. It also poops you out in an unpredictable place.

Not saying alpha strike is bad, but it lacks some of the utility of a more standard dash.
Where you appear isn't unpredicatable to you, but it might not be clear to the enemy if they don't know who you targeted.

But yeah, Yi is an all-in champion and I love him for it.


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AHeroNamedHawke1

Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felaedor View Post
There just wasn't quite enough risk anymore.
Nothing has changed about AP Yi in a long time. He is just as risky as hes always been. If not moreso with all the interrupts and escapes in the game.


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doubleguac

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galgus View Post
@ doubleguac:

That wouldn't be enough for the ability to be remotely reliable as a lifesaver in team-fights.

I have been jungling as AD Yi and building him as a glass cannon with reliable results- the key is to go in after a fight starts and CC is blown, cut down a carry at Talon speed, and go from there if able.

In order to be a true Melee ADC, a champion cannot be at all durable stat-wise: Jax is a fighter who can carry games, but he isn't really in Yi's niche.

To be honest, glass cannon AD Yi plays like an assasin that will win a teamfight if not focused, and relies on timing to prevent that.

(Although your team needs another real source of damage- usually a Ranged ADC- to force the enemy team to use their CC to initiate rather than save two ults and a stun for you.)

I specifically said that I had no idea how to make ad yi more viable at competitive levels. I was just responding to someone who was comparing alpha strike to a dash. I do not think giving him a true dash would solve all of his problems.

My whole point was that Yi has trouble carrying as ad because in the late game he simply cannot expect to survive team fights with a straight ad build. You basically have two options late game:
1) run in with your team and pray they don't CC and burst you. Any good team will, and you will be essentially useless
2) run in late, after the enemy team has already engaged on your team and hopefully blown most of their cc and burst. This puts your team at a disadvantage at the start of the fight, and it's still a tossup whether or not you will get bursted down before you can really start putting out your damage.


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Draginath

Senior Member

01-24-2013

I definitely agree.I always saw Meditate as that "if you don't do something about this, you're in trouble" ability. I don't really see a problem with that especially given how easy it is to stop and that Yi has to be stationary. A team dumb enough to sit there and let Yi sit there meditating deserves what comes next. It's just like in WoW where if you let that healer sit their spamming their teammates or that arcane mage turret you, you deserve to get rolled. There's enough counterplay there to justify the ability being stupidly powerful.

Maybe the heal is a little much but to gut the heal seems a little uncalled for, especially with no real compensation to an already obscure champion. This change spill over to AD Yi builds as well. I like picking up a splash of AP on Yi, especially when jungle and having it go a long way due to his ratios.


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Felaedor

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ÄHeroNamedHawke View Post
Nothing has changed about AP Yi in a long time. He is just as risky as hes always been. If not moreso with all the interrupts and escapes in the game.
And Champions are not a world unto themselves.

AP Yi has always been in a similar boat to AP Rengar, AP Sion, and AP Trist, but has picked up popularity with the rising popularity of reset-on-kill mechanics.

You KNEW they were going to get nerfed, because Riot just doesn't like 1 trick ponies.

Also, the thing that makes AP Yi an exception is his ability to reset his heal. If they save 1 CC, Heal gets broken -> Alpha and a kill -> Oh look. I can either choose to Alpha again, or be full HP. Hope another CC is up!


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