AOE junglers are now stronger.

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DrPupziDeZombi

Junior Member

01-24-2013

As an example i will use the wraiths and Amumu. Now that the Lesser Wraiths are weaker and still do the same amount of damage they die faster when Amumu is using his AOE arsenal and therefor eliminates most of the damage faster than a single target jungler. So i propose riot gives the big monsters in the jungle more damage and take away damage from the lesser monster. and if some one can provide some statistics to prove or disprove my theory , i will be happy to see the math.


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Stippy

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Hello. I would like to ask you a quick question and I believe you will see exactly why single target jungles are currently considered more powerful.

What is the goal of a jungle?

To offer my thoughts on the question. The goal of a jungle is to quickly clear jungle creeps while applying pressure to the lanes. This will keep him in line exp and hold wise while contributing to every lane at the same time.

To further expand on that we see the relevance of damage taken. Take less damage means you can help in lane with more life. However aoe on the whole will kill big mobs slower making his ability to traverse the map and effect lanes lower.

I hope this will help you see the importance of single target damage for the larger mobs. If jungle was completely about surviving and killing mobs than everyone would choose Warwick who has enough sustain to basically always be full health.


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iralos7713

Senior Member

01-24-2013

AOE junglers may kill the little ones faster, but the big one stays alive longer, hurting their clear. AOE is still important, but not as much as in s2. If AOE had no affect whatsoever, Fiddlesticks would rule the jungle.


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OneDeadPixel

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Ive been playing jungle Cho recently and by level 4 i use wraiths for free sustain. Mundo also benefits from the change because he has aoe and high single target focus. I can actually clear camps faster now by slightly redistributing my skill points so i have a little more into my E early game.


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DrPupziDeZombi

Junior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stippy View Post
Hello. I would like to ask you a quick question and I believe you will see exactly why single target jungles are currently considered more powerful.

What is the goal of a jungle?

To offer my thoughts on the question. The goal of a jungle is to quickly clear jungle creeps while applying pressure to the lanes. This will keep him in line exp and hold wise while contributing to every lane at the same time.

To further expand on that we see the relevance of damage taken. Take less damage means you can help in lane with more life. However aoe on the whole will kill big mobs slower making his ability to traverse the map and effect lanes lower.

I hope this will help you see the importance of single target damage for the larger mobs. If jungle was completely about surviving and killing mobs than everyone would choose Warwick who has enough sustain to basically always be full health.
I agree, it is all about affecting other lanes, but riot has focused on a goal of relieving jungle presence from the lanes and making single target champs more effective in the jungle. i just feel they need to tweak it that much more by not only giving the bigger monsters more hp, but also more damage


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Darth Starkiller

Senior Member

01-26-2013

AoE Junglers have the fastest clear times because they can kill more creeps at once than a single-target Champion. However, nearly every single AoE Jungler (with the exception of Cho'Gath and, if played/built correctly, Udyr) is inferior Late Game to Single-Target Champions. The reason?

Single-Target Junglers typically have high burst damage, high survivability, or high sustain. An example would be, as mentioned, Fiddlesticks (massive damage from his ult; there's a reason a lot of people call him Pentasticks) and Warwick (some of the highest self-sustain in the game). Built correctly (mostly tanky with a few high tier damage items), they can nuke down enemy carries in seconds, survive a huge beating from the enemy team, wear down one or even two enemies, and typically force either a retreat or a massive upset in team fights.

As a personal example: I once played Warwick with Ezreal bottom, Sona bottom, Katarina mid, and Darius top. I was the Jungler. I was fighting an Ashe bottom, a Soraka bottom, a Ryze mid, and a Taric top, with Shyvana as their Jungler. In the last team fight of the game, Shyvana had been slaughtered at Red buff, and their team engaged ours, Ashe behind them. I snuck around, Ulted Ashe with my Blade of the Ruined King, Frozen Mallet, Sunfire Cape, Spirit Visage, Frozen Heart, and Sorcerer's Shoes, and killed her with one more Q. They turned on me, but Sona healed me and our Darius murdered their Soraka. Still focused on me, I killed their Taric (because of BotRK) and my Sunfire Cape wore them down enough that even though they killed me, they got Aced by an Ezreal ultimate and surrendered when their final inhibitor fell.

I went 11/2/18 in that game. It lasted 39 minutes. The early game was abysmal (Darius got ganked and nearly killed twice by Taric and Shyvana, even though her full-game ganking is almost as bad as Warwick's early game), but mid-game Darius killed Shyvana in an attempted gank, I killed Taric with a gank from my Ultimate, Katarina kept forcing Ryze out of Lane, and Ezreal/Sona just overwhelmed by denying them Creep farm Ashe/Soraka. I killed dragon twice (got ganked by four enemies the second time but Smite stealed it at the last second), successfully ganked Bottom five times with two Double Kills back to back, and killed Baron when they attempted to ninja him with my Smite when Shyvana wasted it when he was mid-low health. Late Game Shyvana could barely scratch our health, Ashe failed to snowball, Soraka was too squishy to be useful to their team, and Taric was constantly left behind when a teamfight was initiated, dying 14 times.

That wasn't my best game; it was just the one that stuck with me the most, because it was the first game that I had finally come to understand Warwick's strengths and weaknesses, and those of Junglers like him.