J4 needs love...

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Kelly Price

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Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeIIsing View Post
Lol... what do you suggest then?
I suggest that we do make it thicker.

I mean, then not only could it be more useful, but the thickness of it would have strategic value - like, he could not only trap someone, but reliably block passage from a certain avenue.


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MorgManBasher

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven1425 View Post
J4 has a much better first clear, but I'm not sold on later clears being so much better than Naut's. The only reason Naut's first clear is even bad is because his additional damage from the DoT, autoattack, AND all of his damage mitigation disappear with his shield. Max it first, and he becomes an unkillable clearing machine.
Lose out on burst damage if you max w before e for ganks unless they are letting you auto attack them over and over.

I love J4 for his burst damage ganks.


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MorgManBasher

Senior Member

01-24-2013

I'm certainly not against J4 buffs, though I don't want anything major. I love J4 how he is now and play him mid, support and jungle. At most I'd want a buff to his ult or his shield. His w is kinda crappy.


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HeIIsing

Junior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven1425 View Post
J4 has a much better first clear, but I'm not sold on later clears being so much better than Naut's. The only reason Naut's first clear is even bad is because his additional damage from the DoT, autoattack, AND all of his damage mitigation disappear with his shield. Max it first, and he becomes an unkillable clearing machine.
I agree.


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HeIIsing

Junior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorgManBasher View Post
Lose out on burst damage if you max w before e for ganks unless they are letting you auto attack them over and over.

I love J4 for his burst damage ganks.
Thats not true at all. Have u even seen how fast a naut clear a jungle. Everyone, even the pros like stonewall agrees that the jungle speed and transition to late game of naut are superior to that of j4. The guy clear faster as he gets beefier. Not to mention the fact that naut skills don't cost much mana. And naut can build Spirit of the Ancient Golem +35 tenacity vs lantern of j4 >>> naut can build boots of mobility.


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MorgManBasher

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeIIsing View Post
Thats not true at all. Have u even seen how fast a naut clear a jungle. Everyone, even the pros like stonewall agrees that the jungle speed and transition to late game of naut is superior to that of j4. The guy clear faster as he gets beefier. Not to mention the fact that naut skills don't cost much mana. And naut can build Spirit of the Ancient Golem +35 tenacity vs lantern of j4 >>> naut can build boots of mobility.
Naut's an area of effect jungler and was nerfed by the replacing of HP on smaller jungle creeps into the bigger, otherwise I'd agree his clears would be pretty decent-ish. After playing Sej though I don't know if I can go back to naut... his clears are complete garbage compared to her, though his pre 6 ganks are so much better. She is an area of effect jungler too, but hits hard enough to insta kill small camps even after the changes once having decent items.


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HeIIsing

Junior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorgManBasher View Post
Lose out on burst damage if you max w before e for ganks unless they are letting you auto attack them over and over.

I love J4 for his burst damage ganks.
U do know that jarvan has to max e to jungle right? Burst damage against naut.... hmmm, naut is a cc bot, so he wont be able to deal as much as damage as j4. However he can gank better than j4 for he clear the jungle faster, takes 0 damge from monters at about lvl 5. And his gank is sick, more reliable than j4. A blitz grab that can hook to terrain, a slow, a root and a stun that cant be cleanse nor flash out. The difference between naut and j4 is too great.


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HeIIsing

Junior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MorgManBasher View Post
Naut's an area of effect jungler and was nerfed by the replacing of HP on smaller jungle creeps into the bigger, otherwise I'd agree his clears would be pretty decent-ish. After playing Sej though I don't know if I can go back to naut... his clears are complete garbage compared to her, though his pre 6 ganks are so much better. She is an area of effect jungler too, but hits hard enough to insta kill small camps even after the changes once having decent items.
Hmm i might try her out someday. But i still think that J4 needs more love than naut at this moment.


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MorgManBasher

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeIIsing View Post
U do know that jarvan has to max e to jungle right? Burst damage against naut.... hmmm, naut is a cc bot, so he wont be able to deal as much as damage as j4. However he can gank better than j4 for he clear the jungle faster, takes 0 damge from monters at about lvl 5. And his gank is sick, more reliable than j4. A blitz grab that can hook to terrain, a slow, a root and a stun that cant be cleanse nor flash out. The difference between naut and j4 is too great.
I max Q first in the jungle, actually. Why exactly does jarvan HAVE TO max e first? He doesn't.

As for CC, jarvan's may not be as good, but J4 with the correct runes (you should be running flat AD, not attack speed) will burst down a couple bars on HP level 2 ganking while knocking them up. If you play it smart you can come in and auto attack them and wait for them to start fleeing to flag combo them so they burn a flash or to knock them up when they do flash.

Ult is good for burning flashes and agaisnt people like olaf/singed who run ghost over flash. Not to mention Jarvan's ult is a pretty good finisher.

Jarvan's more for people who want a jack of all trades jungler. He can be a tank, support, tanky DPS or burst damage monster depending on the game.

Also naut sucks at stealing dragons/barons while jarvan can not only jump the cliff walls but grant vision without even having a ward. i can't even name all the times I've stolen drag/baron with j4 and when I play naut and can't help but wish i was playing J4 when stuff like this happens.

Again, not against J4 buffs but I don't think Naut is that great. I think the nerfs he got were a bit overboard.


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Rollerball

Senior Member

01-24-2013

J4 does not have to max E to jungle, I put one in it then max Q. I would prefer a buff to his E though, because while his W is **** i have nothing against it, some skills can be crappy while others are much better. Overall I agree J4 needs buffs, but I wouldnt prefer him to be changed for the sake of changing.