Thresh and Soul Visibility

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Armageddal

Senior Member

01-23-2013

***I can now see *some* souls, but I don't think I can see them all. And they are very difficult to spot.

Hi there.

I've just noticed something after playing against a Thresh that is rather frustrating. As his enemy, you can't see the souls that are dropped. I was actually under the impression that they were visible as green to allies, and red to enemies, but it seems they are only visible to allies. The issue here is that it's difficult to harass Thresh when he tries to collect a soul, because you can't tell where they are. As Thresh's main weakness is his low durability until he farms up souls, it is imperative that his opponents punish him for picking up souls. However, not knowing where those souls are makes it incredibly difficult for his opponents to zone him off of souls.

Allowing enemies to see souls will, of course, lower the number of souls Thresh can, on average, acquire. This can be counteracted if Thresh uses Dark Passage to collect souls from afar, at the cost of the ability's cooldown and some mana. So the trade-off is more armour and a short vulnerability due to the cooldown versus less armour.

In my latest game, the enemy Thresh gained 105 armour by level 10, having an Emblem of Valor (+20 armour) as his only armour-granting item. With his initial 18 armour and the +20 from his Emblem, that totals +67 armour from souls alone, by level 10. This Thresh did not routinely spam Dark Passage to acquire more souls from afar (which otherwise would have forced him to over-extend to collect them).

I am not advocating for Thresh to be "nerfed". The stats he gains from souls does not make him "OP", and his kit is also sound. I simply think opponents need to be able to make it more difficult for Thresh to collect souls, limiting his early game snowball effect.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

01-23-2013

You have to zone thresh away from dead minions and champs... is it that complicated?


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Armageddal

Senior Member

01-23-2013

There are a lot of dead minions, souls last for quite awhile, and you can't see dead minions for very long, forcing you to memorize where they were. So yes, it is extremely difficult.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armageddal View Post
There are a lot of dead minions, souls last for quite awhile, and you can't see dead minions for very long, forcing you to memorize where they were. So yes, it is extremely difficult.
guess youll have to control where they die then. Which is kindof a standard thing. You wont stop him from getting all of them but you can at least make a few areas dangerous


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Armageddal

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
guess youll have to control where they die then. Which is kindof a standard thing. You wont stop him from getting all of them but you can at least make a few areas dangerous
You can stand at the front of your minion wave to harass him anytime he comes near the front, yes... but this also puts you out of position.


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Br0din

Senior Member

01-23-2013

But early game if Thresh moves out forward of his creeps to collect souls either he's going to be harassed pretty hard, or your lane is being harassed harder. In the former you just have to make him regret picking those up by poking him, in the latter there was likely no way you could prevent him getting the souls anyways.


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Yuan Shikai

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br0din View Post
But early game if Thresh moves out forward of his creeps to collect souls either he's going to be harassed pretty hard, or your lane is being harassed harder. In the former you just have to make him regret picking those up by poking him, in the latter there was likely no way you could prevent him getting the souls anyways.

Problem is that htresh can throw out his lantern to colelct the souls for him as his lantern colelcts the souls, not his body, so that is not an option.

That said, you CAN see enemey souls, they are just not as obvious as your own team's souls.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armageddal View Post
You can stand at the front of your minion wave to harass him anytime he comes near the front, yes... but this also puts you out of position.
you dont have to go to extremes. Ward around and get closer to the wave, punish him each time he sticks his neck out to reach the further off minions from the brush. Hes at a disadvantage early on starting at level 2


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuan Shikai View Post
Problem is that htresh can throw out his lantern to colelct the souls for him as his lantern colelcts the souls, not his body, so that is not an option.

That said, you CAN see enemey souls, they are just not as obvious as your own team's souls.
if he wastes his lantern can he really do much in lane?


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Odex

Member

01-24-2013

They are visible, just small. They are small orange dots.


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