Riot needs to fix the tribunal

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MakJuice

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ferret View Post
So how do people get pardoned then. Wouldnt it be if everyone click punish then the punish rate would be 100%?

You logic is bad and you should feel bad too.
Ferret has a good point it was just a little mean lol...

OP the point of the matter is 80% of the games are punish worthy... and probably around 20% really are pardon worthy... So thats why when you hitt punish 80% correct rate is about what you'll get because thats really how many are punish worthy.

My problem with the tribunal isnt because of this though, my main problem is because theres 20% of cases that are pardon worthy that are even in the tribunal to begin with hence "troll reporters".. I still believe that you should not (in the league of legends world) be put in a trial (case) for something that you are completely innocent of. I dont know anyone who wants to show up to court for a crime they did not committ wether you are going to achieve a innocent verdict or not..

Thats the main reason i outcry on the forums and also to the over sensitivity of a vast majority of voters on these forums.

So OP i unfortunatley dont agree with you about your argument but i do myself believe Riot has alot to fix about the tribunal


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Lord Ferret

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MakJuice View Post
Ferret has a good point it was just a little mean lol...

OP the point of the matter is 80% of the games are punish worthy... and probably around 20% really are pardon worthy... So thats why when you hitt punish 80% correct rate is about what you'll get because thats really how many are punish worthy.

My problem with the tribunal isnt because of this though, my main problem is because theres 20% of cases that are pardon worthy that are even in the tribunal to begin with hence "troll reporters".. I still believe that you should not (in the league of legends world) be put in a trial (case) for something that you are completely innocent of. I dont know anyone who wants to show up to court for a crime they did not committ wether you are going to achieve a innocent verdict or not..

Thats the main reason i outcry on the forums and also to the over sensitivity of a vast majority of voters on these forums.

So OP i unfortunatley dont agree with you about your argument but i do myself believe Riot has alot to fix about the tribunal
yeah i was a bit mean.

The problem is there is no way to tell if someone is innocent or not. Except by the tribunal. Which is why they get pardoned.

In RL cases people get questioned and arrested falsely all the time. Due to lots of different factors. Found new evidence. Person who sold em out were lying. some one screwed up with paper work. and so forth. People get pardoned in court cases as well.

The main reason riot made the tribunal was to give the community some say in what should and shouldnt be punishable. Honestly I pretty much ignore the summoners code when judging cases. I look at things like hhmm was this person bad or a jerk to others. Does do I think this person needs a time out or a slap on the wrist. If so i vote punish. If they did nothing wrong i vote pardon. I think i am around 86-89% accuracy.

Another reason the tribunal was made was to help riot shift through all the stinkin reports they get. They did an inforgraph or someone did some calculations on the amount of games that get played hourly. Its like a few thousands of games getting made every 30ish min.

Lets say 10k games are made/finished every 30 min. And in even if half those games get reports thats till 5k reports every 30 min. Now X that by what 48. That is a metic **** load of reports daily. Now I dont know how many Employees riot has employed. But if each one takes its Share of reports and still has to deal with all of their other stuff they work on, Champs; items; balancing; PR, they would have to work 24/7.

Meaning there is a Lot of reports daily that riot just cant handle to tell if someone is a false/troll report or not. Which is a secondary function of the tribunal.


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theshim

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by feredorand View Post
you want evidence of people always clicking punish?
go to tribunal on an account hit punish every single time.
it gives you 80%+ correct
Given that Riot can and has adjusted both the prerequisites to get into the Tribunal as well as the amounts required for a punish verdict, as well as the fact that they can do so again, the punish rate at any given time is indicative of very, very little.

Riot could very easily have a 100% punish rate at any time they want simply by screening cases so only the worst of the worst got through. And people would scream it was because of punish spam, and they would still be wrong.

A more interesting experiment would be to see if Riot could get a 0% punish rate for a little while...


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Rueian

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

The downside to giving the community a say, is the tribunal kindof gives the community too much say.

Also if you send a ticket the support gives you conflicting information about the tribunal. I have heard a riot employee state that they take a sample of all punishes to review and only review completely every perma-ban case.

According to support they review EVERY case. Which i think is BS. We wouldn't have these 'slip through the cracks' unjustified reports if they reviewed each case. They have stated that they are more harsh than the community.

The biggest issue with the tribunal is the fact that it is semi-automated.
even bigger than the fact that the judges have such vast differences in opinion.


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Rueian

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by theshim View Post
Given that Riot can and has adjusted both the prerequisites to get into the Tribunal as well as the amounts required for a punish verdict, as well as the fact that they can do so again, the punish rate at any given time is indicative of very, very little.

Riot could very easily have a 100% punish rate at any time they want simply by screening cases so only the worst of the worst got through. And people would scream it was because of punish spam, and they would still be wrong.

A more interesting experiment would be to see if Riot could get a 0% punish rate for a little while...
Would get close, but never be 0%
You will always have the select few people that will act like this

"They have made it to the tribunal, no matter what information you give me they are in the wrong and they deserve to be punished"


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YueienGato

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rueian View Post
The downside to giving the community a say, is the tribunal kindof gives the community too much say.

Also if you send a ticket the support gives you conflicting information about the tribunal. I have heard a riot employee state that they take a sample of all punishes to review and only review completely every perma-ban case.

According to support they review EVERY case. Which i think is BS. We wouldn't have these 'slip through the cracks' unjustified reports if they reviewed each case. They have stated that they are more harsh than the community.

The biggest issue with the tribunal is the fact that it is semi-automated.
even bigger than the fact that the judges have such vast differences in opinion.
Too much of a say? We vote whether that behaviour is negative or if it was pardonable.

One voice, majority rule. We vote yes or no, we don't vote "perma bamp" or not.

You get 5 tries at this, with 5 different pools of judges. Not our fault if your subjective "Hey, I ain't a jerk" opinion - your single opinion - doesn't fly with everyone else's individual reponse.

Riot reviews each PERMA BAMP case in its entire history: I am sure there are cases where Riot has not perma bamp but, possibly, just given another 2 week or less if they found that the person was exhibiting less toxic behaviour.

And yes, they've said in the past that if they, Riot, were solely in charge they'd be punishing more: but I am sure if that was the case people would deem them being "not in touch" with the community as well. That's kinda the problem when those few people who have been perma bamp decide to come here and lash out at everyone else.

The Tribunal is to make players accountable for their actions: is it perfect? No, but I've only seen one case in which an overwhelming amount of evidence proved Riot otherwise.

But I also take the experience I had leveling up during the first year and am glad that a community-empowered system is in place for removing the more outright toxic individuals. The downside? Trying to show people their toxicity behaviour when, clearly after 5 previous warnings, they are proving Lyte right when he suggests that these are people who do not want to reform, much less admit that they were in the wrong.


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Rueian

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

keep the personal jabs out of conversation.

it also hits the not 'outright toxic' players, the outliers.


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PenguinKillBear

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rueian View Post
But it also hits the not 'outright toxic', the outliers.
its not an outlier when you have to be reported more frequently than 99.3% of the population to even end up in the tribunal.
The outliers are the couple of people who truly do not deserve at all to be there, where their entire case file is false reports. Even many people who are pardoned show borderline punishable behavior. Very rarely does someone show up who truly does not deserve to be there.


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Tkul

Member

01-23-2013

I like the fact that riot just permabanned some pro players but people are still trying to use "I'm competitive so its ok" as a defense. All professional sports will suspend you if misbehave and if half the things that are said in the tribunal case I've read were ever said during an actual sporting event by a participant you can bet your ass that player would never be back on the field and it wouldn't have multiple warnings


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YueienGato

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rueian View Post
keep the personal jabs out of conversation.

But it also hits the not 'outright toxic', the outliers.
When did I lash out at you? I said perma bamp folks - I never implied YOU were of that feather.

And for "outright" that depends on your definition of acceptible or not: there are a wide range of voices, as you've said, and I'll leave it up to the masses to decide what is permitted or not.

I've seen cases get punished in which I would not have, but also seen cases in which I strongly wanted a punish that ended up a pardon.

Was I wrong in either situation? No, cause my voice is a voice: one voice. I contribute my voice and let it go where it goes. My voice either pushes with or against a general opinion: I don't write lengthy letters, note down precedent, or lash out at people to vote a certain way.

I just vote because that is the bare minimum asked of me in this system.

To believe otherwise, that there is some sinister conspiracy that allows only certain types of folks (trolls, other toxic players, kids, etc. the perma bamp hit list) is beyond ludicus.

What I do find stupid is the fact that in order to play a game I have to also endure this system because peopel cannot behave: that I find is perhaps the only sad aspect of LoL. So is it a bad thing to give people "too much of a voice" as in "voting yes or no?"

No.

I do not.

At all.