Underestimated Support Ashe

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Eualcides

Member

01-22-2013

Helly, my name is Eualcides and I am a new level 30 in NA experimenting with new/interesting ideas as well as standard ones.

Today I would like to inspect Ashe as a support discussing pros/cons as well as skill orders and items.

ADC Ashe seems to have a problem being scary as her damage is horrible lategame. You can have IE, PD, boots and BT and still a host of other champions will crush you with lesser builds. It seems she ends up playing a support role anyway, so I thought "why not play her as one?"

Let me make it clear that Ashe is a kill/harass support and that this build is an ALL-INish style build that relies on winning your lane. So far, it has worked at the lower middle range (900-1200) of elo.As Ashe has no sustain for either herself or her lane partner, it is best to support with her with an ally who can keep themselves topped off. Support ashe is about harass; you zone your opponents to allow your ADC to farm whilst they fall behind.

Pros:
great harasser
perma slow which is invaluable in securing kills for your adc
can defend her tower extremely well while the adc is "B"
excellent utility lategame offering decent pokes, sight, a stun, and more (depending on build)
early game she's a deadly harasser

Cons:
squishy
no sustain
aggression reliant
not accepted as a real support
requires excellent game sense/positioning

Here's an overview of the build.
Boots, Philosopher Stone, Bloodstone, Executioner's Calling, Aegis of the Legion, Zeke's Herald (or another appropriate aura item).

Now let us discuss the setup.

For summoner spells, get flash - it is a must for escaping with Ashe who has few tricks for getting out of tight spots. The second spell is based on preference, I like to take ignite as I'm quite aware that I NEED to dominate my lane in order to do well.

You do not have to take utility masteries to support as Ashe, in fact it can be better if you dont; take some offensive/defensive masteries to maximize effective poking. I changed this setup from 21/9/0 to 19/11/0 ; as someone reasonably pointed out, the crit and "21" talent dont make that much of a difference in poking (and you never really make real use of the crit masteries anyway). I still put 3 points for 6 ArP, but could be talked out of this.

For runes grab 9 armor seals, 9 damage/ARP marks, 9 MR/lvl glyphs and 3 AD quints. Damage = poke = happy days. Armor is self explanatory. As you rarely run into magic dmg in your lane (and should be avoiding it in team fights later) I could see one taking lesser armor glyphs or something else they prefer.

Skilling order is R>W>Q>E. Always max your R first. We max volley first because it's Ashe's main harass and the only way you'll really stay alive. Q is of secondary importance because it's how Ashe secures kills for the ADC. Until several points are spent in this slow, it wont really help your adc all that much. Hawkshot is only really needed at short range because we'll only use it to keep sight on cowards who run into bushes.

I've found this skill order to be the most effective.

Last, but not least: THE ITEMS.

Start: rejuvenation bead and faerie charm, 1 pot 1 ward. build the Philosopher Stone.

next build boots if you're defending your lane instead of dominating. otherwise start building the Avarice Blade. this item offers more gold (^-^) and a small chunk of crit that synergizes well with Ashe's passive. We are not relying on this crit, but it is an effective item on her.

then get (boots if you haven't yet) Bloodstone and start building either Aegis of the Legion or Executioners Calling depending on how the game is going.
Always buy wards when you go back until you get the Bloodstone.

Your end build should look like this: AS boots with furor enchant, static shiv/executioners calling, Bloodstone, Aegis of the Legion, Zekes Herald/Frozen Heart and Shurelya's Reverie. You will rarely, if ever, complete this build so make sure you're in tune with your team's needs and build accordingly.

Avarice blade is taken for 3 reasons: 1, it builds into 2 items that synergize well with this build, one of which is very cheap (^-^) 2, it offers some gp10 which we desperately need and 3, the crit is a BONUS that DOESN'T hurt.

By lategame you'll be tagging behind your team stilling dishing out decent poke and boosting your entire team with massive utility. If they're highly mobile/volatile, save your arrow for a stun when they initiate on you. Same for flash.

I hope you enjoyed this guide, please leave what feedback you can!


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

01-22-2013

With 0 gp10 from runes and mastery, you are gambling that you won't lose and can get assist off from your teammates.

Also, 1 ward will not be enough in 80% of the situations.

4/10, well written but cannot be used even in 1200 elo range.


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Petrocles

Member

01-23-2013

Waiting on passive gold gain and gold from kills/assists just will not do. You will not be able to afford wards and your damage will be pitiful. Without wards youll need to spam your hawkshot for vision, and will need to spend money on mana/mana regen items to keep it up

Avarice blade is a bit wasted on a support because of the +2g per cs factor on top of only +2gp10 - according to lolwiki:

This item will pay for itself in 66.7 minutes if you didn't kill anything and you didn't sell it. If you sell it, the time required is 33.3 minutes. Any kill you make reduces the timer by 10 seconds.
If you kill 6 units every minute, this item breaks even with Kage's Lucky Pick. If you kill 9 units this item breaks even with Philosopher's Stone. More than 9 kills per minute will generate more gold comparing to other gold generating items.

9 kills per minute is about 3/4 of the minions in 2 waves. If youre getting that as support youre starving your adc. While Hawkshot will offset your need for so many minon kills, If youre skilling Hawkshot last, youre missing the added gold bonus for cs...better off with a philo and build it into a shurlya later on.

While im all for trying alternative and unconventional supports, building a support ashe this way I just dont see working.

Good for you for daring to try new things though


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Eualcides

Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrocles View Post
Waiting on passive gold gain and gold from kills/assists just will not do. You will not be able to afford wards and your damage will be pitiful. Without wards youll need to spam your hawkshot for vision, and will need to spend money on mana/mana regen items to keep it up

Avarice blade is a bit wasted on a support because of the +2g per cs factor on top of only +2gp10 - according to lolwiki:

This item will pay for itself in 66.7 minutes if you didn't kill anything and you didn't sell it. If you sell it, the time required is 33.3 minutes. Any kill you make reduces the timer by 10 seconds.
If you kill 6 units every minute, this item breaks even with Kage's Lucky Pick. If you kill 9 units this item breaks even with Philosopher's Stone. More than 9 kills per minute will generate more gold comparing to other gold generating items.

9 kills per minute is about 3/4 of the minions in 2 waves. If youre getting that as support youre starving your adc. While Hawkshot will offset your need for so many minon kills, If youre skilling Hawkshot last, youre missing the added gold bonus for cs...better off with a philo and build it into a shurlya later on.

While im all for trying alternative and unconventional supports, building a support ashe this way I just dont see working.

Good for you for daring to try new things though
the logic behind this item is twofold: first you build the philo stone first. second, you get this item for the bonus crit to have reliable pokes midgame as well as building it into an executioners calling to shut down the enemy team's regen.


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Eualcides

Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
With 0 gp10 from runes and mastery, you are gambling that you won't lose and can get assist off from your teammates.

Also, 1 ward will not be enough in 80% of the situations.

4/10, well written but cannot be used even in 1200 elo range.
I believe you are either misunderstanding or wrong, but I cannot prove you wrong. I'll repost with proof when I can.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Any plan executed well will work better than no plan at all. You have laid out a few specific and relatively achievable goals you wish to obtain with Ashe. I won't get in to how competitive your strategy may or may not be, but I will point out some areas you might improve your goals.

Your main goal a support is t do just that. Your focus on crit as a poking tool is a fine way to do this. I would strongly consider gp5 quints and reorganizing to keep your poke high, but still get some reliable income for wards. As a support player myself I cannot stress the use of wards and the ability to buy them this brings. You can always build AD easy enough, but its hard to build crit on Ashe. Runes and masteries may be a better place to add that stat.

Second, your item selection could be improved. For example, phage->FH is too redundant and not offering much. You have a slow on hit skill,HP from sight stone upgrade, and the poke damage boost is negligeble.

I would much rather see you build items that support the team more. Executioners calling is one way. Perhaps look at more aura items like your aiges such as zekes herald? Also, sheen is a beautiful way to increase your poke and mana pool early that synergises nicely with Ashes hit and run tactics.

Start thinking very specifically about what you want to add in teamfights late game, and find items that help you do this.

Good luck, hope I got you thinking.

-gap81


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Eualcides

Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap81 View Post

I would much rather see you build items that support the team more. Executioners calling is one way. Perhaps look at more aura items like your aiges such as zekes herald? Also, sheen is a beautiful way to increase your poke and mana pool early that synergises nicely with Ashes hit and run tactics.

Start thinking very specifically about what you want to add in teamfights late game, and find items that help you do this.

Good luck, hope I got you thinking.

-gap81
I cant pretend that this guide isn't an all-in sort of build: if you fail to put them on the defensive, you might be screwed. that's why I don't let up on the aggressive aspect of this build. And I agree that this build has room for improvement and that aura items should be added.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

01-23-2013

I agree about the all in aspect, but going all in needs to be done smartly. For example, another specific I think you could improve is going 21 deep in offense. Yes the last skill techiquely boosts dps, and thus poke, but is it essential? It adds a % boost to AD on targets below x% health. You shouldn't be finishing targets, but setting them up to fall. Also your AD will generally be lower than a normal ADCs, so the % buff isn't going to really be noticeable, I promise.

There is a lot in offense tree that can help with poke. I'm just not sure its warrented going 21 deep when there are other skills and trees you could get more worthwhile gains from.


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mendeleyev

Senior Member

01-23-2013

If you build into the utility with the pickpocket mastery, that would negate the need for any GP10 runes or items. Chain hitting/harassing people when you have those freeze arrows on is pretty simple when they are running away.

I am seriously intrigued by this concept to be quite honest. I may try it in a normal for some giggles.

As mentioned, getting AD is pretty easy, the bonus from masteries are just that, bonuses.


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M4nTiCoR3

Senior Member

01-23-2013

I agree it has some merit as a heavy harass kill lane. Late game Ashes utility from her skills hardly makes her worthless like some adcs become when under farmed late game. She could find a very nice niche roll as an aggressive not lane support.

Non traditional supports have me intrigued. I got stuck playing Vlad as a support the other night due to bad team comp. I wasn't at all effective due to being speced for mid, but it wasn't horrible either. I could see him in a similar role as my poke helped set up their arc for easy ganks and kills. With the right resources, it might have been very successful.

Time will tell, I plan to try both of these some time soon, if for no other reason than curiosity and ****s and giggles.


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