A Train's Guide to AP Nasus.

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Cenerae

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Is AP Nasus even that good? I mean spirit fire's not reliable damage since it can be walked out of, and his ult has a damage cap. Surely it makes more sense to go tanky with a bit of AD since you'll be focusing on Q anyway? Which of course, is the atypical build.


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HBAFreightTrain

Senior Member

01-24-2013

@Cenarae - Spirit Fire has two components: an initial blast and then the burning ground effect. If you place your spirit fires properly, it's very hard for an opponent to react in time. It's like a Brand blast. In theory, you know it's coming. How often do people get hit with it anyway?

Let's assume a team fight. You've spent 9.4k gold on equipment so far so you have Doran's Ring, Rod of Ages, Zhonya's hourglass, and a Needlessly Large Rod. You have roughly 300 AP. Amumu catches a member of the opposing team over a wall and uses Curse. You flash over the wall, use E, Ult, and hit your primary target with Q and an auto-attack. With just your E and your ultimate, assuming everyone bought Warmog's and has roughly 3k health, you will do roughly 1k damage to all of them caught in the curse and over 1800 dmg to your primary target before resists are factored in. That is two seconds. That kind of AoE burst is why AP Nasus is powerful.

His Ultimate lasts 15 seconds. That 300 AP increased the damage of his ultimate by 90 dmg per second and added 90 dmg to every auto attack during it's duration. That 300 AP increased the damage of Spirit Fire initial blast by 180 dmg and raised the burning damage on the ground by 36 DPS.

So let's look at tankiness. You spent 9.4k on equipment. What did you get?

710 Health. +725 mana. +50 Armor. +25 MR. Your movement speed is 407. You have Tenacity. Oh, and you have the ability to go invulnerable for two seconds. Looks pretty tanky to me.

But it gets better. The longer the game goes, the more you can farm your Q. Unlike AD Nasus who has a horrible laning phase, you had a great laning phase because you can AoE farm from range. You aren't gold starved, you're more likely to win team fights, and your AoE damage just gets higher as the game progresses as does your tankiness.


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Pobbes

Senior Member

01-24-2013

No, lichbane. I'm sorry, AP Nasus needs lichbane. AP Nasus is good for all the reasons you mentioned, but with Lichbane, your Q now scales off of AP as well. An AP nasus with a farmed Q, lichbane, and his ult has something like triple scaling on his Q. AP scales with lichbane, AP scales the drain from his ult which becomes AD to scale his Q, and the Q farm adds to his Q. All that damage has Nasus' passive lifesteal added to it.

Warmogs is a great item, but I think it may be redundant with RoA. If I was building RoA, my final build would probably be... RoA>Sorc Shoes>Lichbane>Randuin's>Abyssal>Deathcap(?)

With RoA and Randuin's, you'll have a very large health pool with an acceptable amount of armor. The AS reduction will help against ADC, while your sustain should help against AD assasins. Randuin's ADC slow is very reliable in teamfights to help with your Ult. Abyssal provides some spell pen, and lichbane helps with your Q damage and sustain. I put a question mark for deathcap since I suspect voidstaff might actually be a better buy. I do worry about total damage, but i think adding the lichbane does a better job of increasing damage then another AP item.

Anyway, lichbane, you need one somewhere.


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HBAFreightTrain

Senior Member

01-24-2013

I prefer Zhonya's Hourglass to Randuin's. While Randuin's is a fine defensive item, part of the kit was taking offensive items that give a nice defensive bonus. You want the 300 AP mark as soon as possible. Since the consensus is that most people would prefer Lichbane for more sustained damage over Warmog's for more tankiness, I'll adjust the build on the OP.

Doran's Ring -> Sorc Boots -> Rod of Ages -> Lichbane -> Zhonya's Hourglass gets to the 300 AP mark since you get 25 AP from starting runes. That's 10.7k gold which is a reasonable amount to achieve in your average game.


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HBAFreightTrain

Senior Member

01-25-2013

Bump


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Pobbes

Senior Member

01-25-2013

Thanks for listening to our feedback. I've been trying to get a chance to try this out in game and see it's effectiveness. Just a question, who would this be a good lane match up against. What champs should you be playing AP nasus against?


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HBAFreightTrain

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Ahri - middle ground. You can farm fairly safely against her as long as you avoid being charmed. You'll win the farming but don't stand toe to toe with her. Move in and out, get your Q farm if she isn't trying to zone, and save your wither as an escape if their jungler comes in.

Anivia - Slightly favored. You farm better than she does pre-six and you harass better. Once she hits six, you'll both be AoE farming. Avoid getting stunned and farm Q when it's relatively safe. You should be ahead in cs as long as you didn't feed or get ganked too often.

Annie - Slightly bad. You'll farm better but once six hits, a mistake will make you Tibbers food. Keep your health up and stay closer to tower so a Tibbers stun doesn't autokill you. You can harass her pre-six by pushing her to tower with quick minion clear and force her to take burn damage to farm. Make sure you practice your E where it will burn the ground in front of the tower without drawing aggro from the tower. If Annie falls too far behind pre-six, you'll win lane if you don't screw up.

Brand - Middle ground. He hits harder if he lands an AoE on you. Your AoE can zone areas better. If you're skilled in baiting out his AoE and dodging it, you'll do fine. He has less sustain than you do if you get some Q farming safely but he punishes your mistakes harder so it evens out.

Cassopeia - Good matchup. She has poke and it hurts but you have sustain and you can harass back. Feint like you are about to blast her and she'll often back off. Hit your Q to finish a minion instead. Your AoE farming leads to more CS during the laning phase. In theory, this matchup should be closer but it isn't. You'll get Q farm and during jungler ganks, you can wither and give her a good smack to finish her while you are tougher to gank due to ghost/flash duo summoner.

Cho'Gath - Favorable. You won't harass a Cho'gath out of lane due to his sustain but you can clear minion waves faster. Clear your minions faster, go clear wraiths, and then come back to lane. As long as your jungler doesn't mind, you'll get a noticeable CS lead. As long as you don't allow him to rupture you, you should do fine.

Diana - Even. Pre-six, you'll farm and harass better and get plenty of Q farm. Then she hits six and can bully you. Punish her as much as you can pre-six and then Q farm near tower after six. Call out when she leaves. Chances are, she's going to get some ganks in other lanes to even out your CS advantage and you can't follow since there's a good chance, she can take you in a one on one. Try to maximize your cs advantage while she roams. In the late game, you will be more powerful.

Elise - Really bad. Her poke is hard to avoid and it really hurts. Your sustain won't keep up. Try to AoE farm and keep your distance. The best way is to quickly bring down a group of minions and then farm the wraiths while she's clearing yours. Elise can take you and she knows it. You have escapes and wither to keep you alive but you'll find yourself at base more than you like. Make sure you get your full 4 Q farm every time you take wraiths and do your best not to feed. If Elise is mid, ask to switch with top.

Eve - Good. The trick to Eve is that her range isn't that good. Your E, if you use the radius right, outranges anything she has that isn't her ult. So harass her with it and make her burn her Q like crazy trying to farm without taking damage. She'll run dry on mana and want to stealth. Clear her minions and force her to clear yours before they get shot by tower. She can't stealth for six seconds if she auto-attacks. Then while she's turret farming, get your wraiths for Q farming. She'll end up recalling to replenish her mana and buy. You'll end up with a sizeable CS lead. Use the extra money to buy pink wards and clear out any wards she has. So when she roams, she'll be spotted by the wards. Without ganks, she'll lose lane badly as Eve will spend too much time roaming and not enough farming. The pinks will be appreciated by your jungler who will probably get fed picking on her.

Karthus - Good. He'll farm just as fast as you and he'll take the wraiths just like you will. You have sustain for his pokes and he'll clear from as far as he can to avoid yours. For this matchup, change Lich Bane to Frozen Gauntlet and take it before the rod. Why? Because most Karthus players will let you Q farm just being content to stay farmed themselves. The cooldown reduction will let you Q farm faster. Take less E and more Q and get that Q farm if he lets you. Once you get enough Q farm and a frozen gauntlet, he's dead meat if you get a wither while he's in the middle of lane.

Kassadin - Death lane. He will rofl stomp you. If they pick Kassadin, avoid at all costs AP Nasus. You cannot farm safely against him and once he hits six, he will dump all over you. Request a switch to top lane if you are paired against Kassadin.

Kayle - Even. This is the most even matchup AP Nasus has. Entirely skill dependent. If the Kayle is better than you, she will kill you often. If you're better than her, you'll harass her out of lane repeatably and have a huge cs lead + tons of Q farm.

Jayce - Even. He will often let you Q farm with occasional pokes to remind you that he's ranged. You can hit him with E to remind him that you're not AD Nasus and you can poke back. If you avoid taking too much of his ranged harass, you farm better. Just be careful. He can take you and he knows it. This is another one where taking wraiths and allowing your lane to reset to the middle after you do a quick clear will get you ahead. Odds are, you'll make at least one mistake and Jayce will gank you. But you'll be ahead in cs, have decent Q farm, and be set up for the late game.

LeBlanc - Good. You build tanky and you farm from range. Get some Q farm when it's available and play safe. Use your superior clear times to get wraith farm and play safe. You're much harder to gank than she is so your jungler is your key. With Wither and Q, you can often successfully gank her with the aid of the jungler while her jungler won't be so lucky. She can burst you like crazy so play it safe. The key is that she is squishy and you aren't. Once you get Lich Bane, you can burst her down if she gets too close. She'll blow her whole wad, drop you from 100-25 and then she dies.

Lux - Slight advantage. You farm faster than she does and you have sustain. Again, the wraiths allow you to get ahead as she'll spend more time to clear the same number of minions. You'll be tankier than she likely will be so farm safely and focus on staying ahead in cs. She's got a slow and a snare so be careful but she lacks sustain so if you're hitting her with E blasts, she'll be forced to back. You'll make at least one mistake and she'll fry you but you should still win your lane.

Morgana - Good. You'll both be AoE farming but your AoE does impact damage which will drain her mana fast if she's shielding or her hp if she's not. You can Q farm a lot pre-six if you're careful about it. Avoid her skill shots. Once she hits six, the ballgame changes. Now she can take you. But you'll be solidly ahead at this point and if you play it safe with ranged AoE farming, she won't get the opportunity to do so. She can spell-shield her jungler to prevent Wither so having two escape summoners will be very handy. So will being tanky.

Orianna - Bad. Maybe it's me but I can't seem to avoid getting poked by the ball. Her harass will be greater than your sustain and your AoE farming won't be nearly as safe against a good player. You'll find yourself Q farming under tower more often than you'd like. Her AA damage is pretty good for an AP mid which will also be irksome. Not to mention if you make a mistake, she'll burst you down once she hits six. If they pick Orianna early, skip AP Nasus. If you get stuck with her, chances are that you'll lose the lane. Try not to feed and take the wraiths often to try and keep up.

Ryze - Below Average. Ryze bursts hard and his snare isn't a skill-shot. You can farm faster than Ryze without ultimate and that's the key to winning the lane. Use your AoE farm as safely as you can, take the wraiths, and buy a flask to keep yourself from going so low that he can burst you down. He's tanky so you're not going to kill him one on one unless he makes mistakes and goes low enough that a lichbane combo with ultimate can finish him. You'll end up going to buy more often and with the purchase of the flask to help keep you up, the slight cs lead you have makes him slightly ahead. More importantly, it's hard to get good Q farm against Ryze so your potential for team fights later won't be as good.

Edit: BTW when playing LeBlanc, PLAY IT SAFE!!!!


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HBAFreightTrain

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Bump


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HBAFreightTrain

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Bump


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HBAFreightTrain

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Ok, according to the numbers and testing by kind souls who probably hate me now, I have created the 300 AP Rule. Since even ADCs are now grabbing Warmog's, getting over 300 AP isn't as good as it used to be since the ultimate will max out sooner. As a result, you either went tankier or you now built AD (Hybrid) to tear down enemy champions faster.

-Tanky options are already listed but in most games: Randuins + Warmog's.
-Hybrid option scaled best with Infinite Edge and Phantom Dancer. If the game goes really long, you can sell boots for a second Dancer to ramp up the damage considerably at the cost of losing a little movement speed and your boot enchant (if you took one)
-If you're getting kited, Frozen Mallet can be used as a tanky item to keep you on your target.
-If their AD Carry is building squishy, you're better off with more AP. You should burst him down incredibly quickly if you took Rabadon's Deathcap.

Example: AP Nasus takes Rabadon's Deathcap after Zhonya's Hourglass since the opposing ADC didn't build any health items. He will have 506 AP. Nasus flashes over the wall along with his friend Amumu who uses the curse. AP Nasus hits his E. That E does 519 dmg before resists and deals 103 dmg before resists to every enemy champion in the field as well as shredding 40 armor. Nasus ultimate goes off dealing 200dmg per second to the poor Ezreal that is next to you with only 2k health. He hits his autoattack (116 + 200)and hits his mighty Q which has farmed 100 minions which deals 526 dmg + lichbane proc of 506 more damage + 200 more damage from the ultimate. An enemy has been slain. You just took that Ezreal from 100-0 in two seconds.


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