Lore, comparatively

123456 ... 8
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Montesque64

Senior Member

01-23-2013

I honestly don't have any particular reason to think that each of the three has a 1:1 relationship with one of the Biblical "four horsemen." If there is a relationship, in my mind it is more that they are harbingers of a coming catastrophe. I don't necessarily think that Hecarim=war, Thresh=death, etc...

Well, we are discussing a "lack of explicit proof," as you say, and obviously that leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I personally believe that since the other current Shadow Islanders are explicitly stated to have come from elsewhere, the lack of that information for the Trio indicates the opposite. However, I certainly have no basis for saying you're wrong to believe it indicates nothing of the sort! I agree there's nothing to say it has to be, and I hope I've been clear throughout that much of my theorizing about the Shadow Isles is based on inferrences, which obviously do not constitute solid proof by any definition. But if we weren't willing to speculate and spin what we can out of what we have, why are we on a Lore forum ?

Quote:
believe that Hecarim has actually been confirmed to have been a member of a long-dead race during one of the AMAs. For whatever reason, his species was completely wiped off the map, perhaps in a way that bears striking similarities to Alistar's tribe
Thanks Birdy, I hadn't known that. I don't know that the minotaurs and Hecarim necessarily have anything to do with one another, but knowing that Hecarim's race is extinct is interesting, and raises the question of whether the same is true of Thresh's, as I do not believe we have ever had confirmation that he was human, only that he was once living.

Anyway, to return to the original topic, I'd argue that the fact that we've even been able to hold this long discussion, with both of us presenting evidence to support two inferred theories, is an indication that enough has been shown of the Shadow Isles to at least make them interesting, even if little is known for a certainty.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Melancholy Exile

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montesque64 View Post
I honestly don't have any particular reason to think that each of the three has a 1:1 relationship with one of the Biblical "four horsemen." If there is a relationship, in my mind it is more that they are harbingers of a coming catastrophe. I don't necessarily think that Hecarim=war, Thresh=death, etc...
Ah, forgive me that. It's not an uncommon comparison I see made, although I don't really put much weight in it myself, and I assumed it was what you were referring to by calling them the "Apocalypse Trio".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montesque64 View Post
But if we weren't willing to speculate and spin what we can out of what we have, why are we on a Lore forum ?
Quite so. In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if Thresh was indeed originally from the Isles, I've just always assumed that he wasn't because it was never stated explicitly in his lore and making that fact clear would open up all the avenues you're seeing. We only know anything useful about what Thresh is now, not the person he used to be.

Maybe it'll come up if they eventually do an AMA for him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montesque64 View Post
Anyway, to return to the original topic, I'd argue that the fact that we've even been able to hold this long discussion, with both of us presenting evidence to support two inferred theories, is an indication that enough has been shown of the Shadow Isles to at least make them interesting, even if little is known for a certainty.
I won't deny that there's a lot to talk about when it comes to the Isles, but I really don't find them all that interesting. Keeping their true nature hidden, and the actual goals of their denizens a secret, may serve to give the Isles an air of mystery, but I feel as though it makes them seem somewhat irrelevant while the setting remains static. What have any of the agents of the Isles really done since they arrived at the League to justify our prolonged interest?

I completely understand why they could appeal to people, but they're really not my cup of tea.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Birdy51

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montesque64 View Post
Thanks Birdy, I hadn't known that. I don't know that the minotaurs and Hecarim necessarily have anything to do with one another, but knowing that Hecarim's race is extinct is interesting, and raises the question of whether the same is true of Thresh's, as I do not believe we have ever had confirmation that he was human, only that he was once living.
Ah sorry, I was just drawing a parallel. I cannot recall if Alistar is the last of people, or if his people are essentially extinct due to a very crippled population. Regardless, minotaurs are essentially a dead race, not too unsimilar to what might have happened to Hecarim's race of centaurs.

Regardless, off-topic and speculation!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Montesque64

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Because we've seen none of that in this thread, eh?

Wasn't sure if you were drawing the comparison or not, but thought I'd put in my 2 cents either way. I generally agree with your assessment of the minotaurs and centaurs(?).

I do hope we get an AMA for Thresh, so some of this might possible get cleared up. I can see where you (Exile) are coming from by saying that the Islanders don't seem to contribute, but I personally view it as a long set up for something that hasn't happened yet. In and of themselves they don't change anything, but perhaps they herald a significant coming change. One can hope, anyway. I'd hate to see LoL go the way of Warhammer and get stuck in one time period forever, with nothing ever changing and no major events ever occuring.

Much better would be something along the lines of WoW (yes, yes, I know many folks don't like the game), where each expansion, i.e. every year sees the continuation of a long story going all the way back to the original Warcraft, even utilizing or making reference to many of the same characters. THAT is what I'm really hoping Riot is working on, or at least something comparable in terms of advancing the story we currently have.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Melancholy Exile

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montesque64 View Post
I'd hate to see LoL go the way of Warhammer and get stuck in one time period forever, with nothing ever changing and no major events ever occuring.
Outside of major retcons, that is


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Montesque64

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Yeesh, don't even get me started on Warhammer lore...so annoying. Another game I feel like League is doing better than in that department! Lol.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xulsigae

Senior Member

01-23-2013

The 'one time' period thing is a very common trope amongst fantasy universes. Even the big one that started much of it, Lord of the Rings, is like that. In so many thousands of years, they haven't moved beyond swords and shields. Warhammer (not 40K), Wheel of Time, Warcraft (based on Warhammer), Age of Conan, Rift, etc. All are 'stuck' in a time period. Which sorta makes sense for games, since you are playing in a pretty short time period in the game. Not really enough time for huge technological advances.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Montesque64

Senior Member

01-23-2013

I'm not talking about technological advances, but actual advances in time and events. LotR most certainly did not have event inertia, as the entire premise was the advancement of one age into the next through the plot, same as with Wheel of Time. Warcraft doesn't utilize the age advancement, but stuff is constantly happening to advance a plot. Warhammer had the Storm of Chaos, then nothing, and now in 8th edition they've even retconned back to just before the storm of chaos.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Melancholy Exile

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montesque64 View Post
I'm not talking about technological advances, but actual advances in time and events. LotR most certainly did not have event inertia, as the entire premise was the advancement of one age into the next through the plot, same as with Wheel of Time. Warcraft doesn't utilize the age advancement, but stuff is constantly happening to advance a plot. Warhammer had the Storm of Chaos, then nothing, and now in 8th edition they've even retconned back to just before the storm of chaos.
Really?

I stopped playing before the 8th edition and I actually thought about mentioning the Storm of Chaos as a perfect example of Warhammer's state of inertia.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Montesque64

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Yes really, and it was really frustrating reading the Orc army book talking about Grimgor Ironhide preparing to go to confront Asheron >_<


123456 ... 8