Dr Mundo Question: Rank Burning Agony or Masochism First?

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MiaoLong

Senior Member

01-21-2013

^^This. For Jungle. I'm aware in Season 2 it was quicker to rank Burning Agony first because of the strength of AoE, but with Season 3 I was wondering if it the emphasis on the large creep in camps affected Mundo's skill ranking order. Would love it if a Mundo player could fill me in, since I did not use Mundo is S2 or S3 so I'm somewhat in the dark here.

Thanks.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

01-21-2013

I see most Mundo junglers splitting their points between their cleaver and burning agony, with only 1 point in masochism.


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Sereg Anfaug

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Senior Member

01-21-2013

Personally, I've always gone for Burning Agony, but with the recent redistribution of health in the smaller camps, I'm not entirely sure that's still the best course of action.

After Agony, I favor my cleavers.


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Xzyrem

Member

01-21-2013

I agree, Ive been testing the same thing and what seems to work best is grabbing a point in W first, then 2 in E for the single target benefits. If you need to gank early for some reason just grab Q at level 3 instead.


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vortical42

Senior Member

01-22-2013

I main mundo, and from what I've seen, maxing cleavers is the way to go. I usually start with W, pick up a point in Q, then E, and then max out Q.


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DarkenDragon

Senior Member

01-22-2013

I only play TT and so I dont really jungle much and I used to be a heavy Mundo player in S2, not so much in S3. but from my experience, hes been a harder champion to play with for me because of the removal of the regrowth pendant.

so with just theory crafting and from my experience, I would say that his E is a better skill to level. the reason for that is because without a regen item, you wont be able to counter that health loss as easily anymore, and with the jungle mobs getting their health redistributed, that means that the little ones are gonna be alive a little longer, thus doing much more damage to you, while your also losing health due to your burning agony. instead I would think getting E would be better and focus on the little ones before the larger mob. the reasoning is because as they're bringing your health lower, your doing more damage, and killing the little ones will be faster and thus remove their damage over time.

Though this is without testing and practice, if the amount of time to kill those little jungle mobs is less than 2-3 extra attacks, then burning agony would be a better choice, if the monsters are able to hit you 4-5 times more than normal, then I would go for E instead. that is until you can find a good health regen substitute.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

01-22-2013

Most only take 1 rank of cleaver. It does the same slow and the percentage % increase is minimal effect earlygame anyways.


Lets look at the facts:

Autoattack is going to be about 2 attacks every 3 seconds. (with a .65ish AS)
In 5 seconds, he autoattacks about 3 and 1/3rd attacks.

Choice #1 is to Agony: costs 10,15,20,25,30 to add 35-95DPS.

Over 5 seconds its 50 health for 175 dmg vs all rank 1.
Over 5 sec, 150 health to add 475 dmg vs all at rank 5.


Choice #2 is Masochism. 25-65 health cost for 5 seconds of 40 to 100 AD.

Over 5 seconds it will cost 25 health to add about 150 damage to one enemy at rank 1.
Over 5 sec costs 65 health to add about 330ish damage to one enemy at rank 5.
(note: you can expect about 1/3rd better effect due to being at lower health when jungling and thus getting more of the bonus effect)

So agony clears faster and does more damage at teh cost of more health. But the longer you facetank, the more damage you take anyways, so offense>defense to some degree.

I go with Agony also because its better when ganking. Moar DEEPS that doesnt even require autoattacks, just staying caught up with the enemy (as you get far less autoattacks in vs a running foe even slowed). i mean, 95 DPS is an enormous amount of damage at level 9 for a constant aura.

But taking ranks in maso is better than I originally thought and its worth using when beating on the big creep while agony is on doing constant DPS. its definitely worth maxing second.


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vortical42

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Interesting point warmaxx. To sum up the raw DPS numbers (at max rank vs ancient golem):
Q: 93.75 dps, cost= 11.25 hps
W: 95.00 dps, cost= 30.0hps
E: 76.5 dps, cost= 13.0hps

So W has the highest dps, especially when you factor in the aoe, but at more than double the health cost of Q or E.

updated: I was including the base attack damage in my calculation for E which was making it look higher. Also changed the health cost of Q to reflect that fact that 1/2 of the cost gets returned if it hits. The values should be correct now.


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Hasuobs

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by vortical42 View Post
Interesting point warmaxx. To sum up the raw DPS numbers (at max rank vs ancient golem):
Q: 93.75 dps, cost= 22.5 hps
W: 95.00 dps, cost= 30.0hps
E: 130.99 dps, cost= 13.0hps

The damage on E looks high to me so I suspect my math may be a bit off. If somone else wants to re-run the calculations, let me know what results you get.
You're forgetting W's AOE. Personally on Mundo I max Q first in the jungle, but I put 2 points in W early. Q just completely DESTROYS the buff camps.


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MiaoLong

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Lol wtf is this. Some ppl are saying this, the other saying that.

What I'm usually running is Agony, with a point of Q at lv 3 ~ 4 and E maxed second. IIRC that's what you would basically do in S2 as well. The problem is that around level 4 I always have to b because of health.

Does everyone b at lv 4? Or am I doing something wrong?


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