@Riot - The state of Poppy

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NickSlip

Senior Member

01-21-2013

As many of us know, Poppy right now is in a really bad state. She was actually passable in S2, because despite her early laning phase, she scaled incredibly well with items and she was able to stack armor with runes and items, which in combination with her W, made her hard to push out of lane and gave her a decent chance to reach her late game. Now, in S3, armor is weak, and much of AD Poppy's itemization was nerfed HARD compared to most top laners. (By the way, this post is going to focus on AD/hybrid Poppy instead of AP Poppy, who also got hurt by the S3 changes). Let's take a look:

Philosopher's Stone, which was incredibly important to her lane sustain, was gutted. One could say that Flask made up for that, but now the current flask is pretty mediocre and doesn't give GP10 like philo did.

Hextech Gunblade was nerfed - not too hard, but the change to the active really hurt AD Poppy because it now scales off AP, and the lifesteal was nerfed as well. BotrK is a decent alternative but doesn't provide as much sustain, and hurts her burst and her late game compared to Hextech.

Trinity Force - here's the big one. Triforce is still among the more cost effective items in the game. but it was completely gutted. It's now too expensive to rush, and the stats are a smattering of everything, but none stand out. This was absolutely 100% core on Poppy S2, but now it's pretty mediocre and she's just better off buying iceborn gauntlet for a sheen proc.
EDIT: Looks as if Trinity Force is getting a 300 gold cost reduction. This probably brings it back to "core" status on Poppy, but Iceborn Gauntlet is still a very competitive pick on her.

AD DPS items like IE and PD were nerfed, which isn't a huge deal because Poppy usually only built IE late game, but still touched her dps when it was already weakened by the nerfs to Triforce and Hextech.

Resistance items were nerfed of course, which hurts Poppy because she was never a champ that stacked heallth due to her passive. The only good thing i can get out of these nerfs are that they make her burst resistant passive and her W a bit more valuable, but the free armor is rendered moot by BC anyway.

Now, you could say that these item nerfs hit a lot of other champions hard, and that wouldn't be untrue... but the AD bruisers and casters that Poppy goes up against top lane got buffed with BC, the armor pen changes, and the resistance nerfs. Champions with a lot of innate sustain can now buy Flask and have even more sustain. The point is that the few S3 changes that helped Poppy helped her counterparts even more, and the indirect nerfs to Poppy didn't hit her counterparts as hard as they did to her.

Anyway, Poppy's late game is still great, but it was nevertheless nerfed and it now takes a heck of a lot more time to reach it. Before the S3 patch her power curve was something like ****ty early, decent but still weak after 20 minutes, and after 30 minutes a godlike late game. Now, she's relegated to near uselessness until 30 minutes, and then even then it's hard for her to penetrate the defenses of a Warmog's-stacking metagame.

Since it'd be stupid to buff her itemization, Poppy needs buffs to her stats and numbers. Her early game is worse than ever and her godlike late game was nerfed and is now surpassed by other hard-scaling melee champs like Jax (don't get me wrong, she's still amazing late, but nevertheless weaker). To compensate for her loss of power late game, she needs some early and mid-game buffs.

Here are some example tweaks that would help her:

Base and scaling stats:
Raise her HP regen from 7.45 base and 0.55/level to 7.9 base and 0.8/level
Raise her AS from 0.638 base and 3.35%/level to 0.658 base and 3.5%/level
Raise her MS from 345 to 350
Give her MR/level scaling like most melee champs.
Either buff her mana stats or lower her mana costs - If her costs aren't lowered, then buff her base mana pool to 230 and scaling to 40/level from 185 and 30, and regen to 7 (+0.7) from 6.4 (+0.45).

Abilities:
Passive - Still an awesome passive in S3, doesn't need to be tweaked at all.

Q - Lower the cooldown and lower the mana cost if she doesn't get any mana buffs. Maybe something like 7/6/5/4/3 seconds from 8/7/6/5/4 and make the mana cost 40 at all levels. This lets her use it more freely in lane, and also helps make up, (but doesn't totally make up) for her indirect DPS nerf in the late game.

W - Lower the mana cost by 10 each rank, because right now it's insanely expensive to use. Maybe buff each max stacks of armor/AD by 5 per rank, so it's 20/25/30/35/40; but the latter buff might not be needed. The MS boost is fine as it is, especially if her base MS gets buffed.

E - Nothing wrong here, a slightly buggy skill, but the numbers are probably fine.

R - This skill is what makes Poppy Poppy; therefore, it should not be touched. Maybe Riot's going to want to address this in a total rework of the yordle down the road, but it should remain the way it is at the moment.

These are just numbers I'm throwing out here, but I really think that these set of buffs would make Poppy much more viable while keeping her balanced. She's been ignored for far too long, and she really needs attention from the balance crew. Although Poppy's one of those champions who are really hard to balance due to a binary nature and an extremely well-rounded kit (for example Vlad and Jax), it can be done, and to let a champion with Poppy's potential go to waste would be such a shame.

Gimme your thoughts!


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Areotix

Senior Member

01-21-2013

all i care about is ap poppy


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SlumlordThanatos

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Fix her splash art.

That is all.


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HongWeiLo

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Poppy's scary. Not lookin' forward to the day they decide to buff her. Also with armor's usefulness disappearing...well, I think they should give her a passive that reduces damage from all sources.


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SquirtingSquid

Member

01-21-2013

Change her ult and sure.

Her bad laning is the only thing keeping her balanced.


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Sybil Cut

Senior Member

01-21-2013

They're fully reworking her at some point, according to Zileas.

I'm willing to bet they're hoping she DOESN'T come back into the limelight, due to how powerful she is. She's one of the hardest one-man carries in the game, next to Nasus.


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sirplayalot11

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Senior Member

01-21-2013

I swear when someone one brings somebody like heimerdinger up, an Iconic champ who needs a rework, everyone jumps the bandwagon and discuss about him, but when someone brings in another champion thats not so popular, that also needs a small rework/buff, its only seen by the 4 people that play poppy, and no one else, =/


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Benign Sentinel

Senior Member

01-21-2013

The only current problem with Poppy is the fact that her Charge only pushes the target back 300 units. This will almost never result in a stun, unless you get the bug where it stuns them on nothing.



Hell, vayne's push back is 470 - thats like 60% farther, and she's ranged :/



Though a small buff to her base stats would be very much appreciated.


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Dante Brimscone

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Poppy's really not in that bad a spot (neither is old Heim for that matter). It would be nice if she had better farming ability (so much aoe top lane) and lower cooldowns but neither are kit breaking issues if the time is put into her. She's completely playable top lane (ask SpamHappy wherever he is now) but it's tough and people will almost always opt for the path of lesser resistance. It's more like, why pick her when you can choose someone that you can just derp cs with like Jayce or Zed or Singed.

I don't know. It's not that Poppy needs buffs so much that it's that people generally aren't going to play high cap champs. Same goes for Heim. So, it's really a matter of dumbing them down more than buffing, IMO. That's why pretty much every Heim discussion results in asking for his rockets to target champs or his grendade being a lock on or giving him so sort of innate flash. It's about being easy and forgiving so patience and positioning aren't as necessary.


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Chained Icarus

Senior Member

01-21-2013

I love Poppy. I just can't ever make a good excuse to play her outside of "IDGAF" random games.


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