Support Alistar Questions

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MiniJunkie

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Hey guys,

I've been reading some guides and messing around playing Alistar, but have a couple questions for the experts:

- If I'm bottom support, I assume I should rarely ever last-hit minions (unless the adc is back at the base anyway). But should I go for enemy kills if they present themselves?
- should I try to build any sort of offensive power, or basically just focus on health/mana/speed etc? Any items tips in that regard?

I guess these are sorta generic support questions, but for example unlike when I'm healing with Nami, Alistar is often more "in the thick of it" with charges etc. Also his ult seems quite offense-oriented?


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Avatarfury

Member

01-21-2013

Dont take any cs unless your adc is not there. Do not take any kills unless its the only way the enemy champion will die. Always give your life before your adc dies. Buy defensive, aura and ward items to support your team. You can use his ult either defensively helping your carry escape after they start focusing you because you put yourself inbetween your carry and them, or you can use it offensively by for example tower diving tanking tower whilst your adc kills the enemy( just a few examples)


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M3GaL0d0n

Senior Member

01-21-2013

First off, I'm no expert and in retrospect of writing this post I'm not sure how well it answers your questions specifically, but these tips should help you figure out how to lane and build Alistar.

Support 101... NO last hitting unless your ADC isn't in lane for whatever reason. On Alistar its important to also stay away from the wave as much as possible after healing, or otherwise procing your passive, as it deals a lot of AoE damage that pushes the wave. The only time I auto attack minions is under my own turret to try and allow my carry to last hit in between turret bolts so they don't lose as much farm. I'll be perfectly honest... I'll steal a little farm (2-3 or a cannon minion) now and then (Only if my carry is already ahead) right before I recall so I can afford and extra ward or buy a key item earlier.

As for builds I always rush Shurelya's Reverie along with whatever boots I feel like I may want. The new Swiftness boots are powerful versus slows but I go Treads if the enemy has and stuns that I feel I need to worry about. Positioning is key on Alistar so being able to get into fights and headbutt enemies around effectively is your biggest concern, as it is how Alistar peels for his carries or injured allies. From there I stack nothing but defensive stats and utility through item active abilities. I've been experimenting with the new items but I usually always build a Chalice into a Crucible for extra carry protection. I would say for the support-tank aspect of your build look at these items...

-Shurelya's Reverie (Absolute MUST on Alistar)
-Mikeal's Crucible (MR usually isnt very important, but mana is, don't neglect other defensive stats)
-Randuin's Omen
-Twin Shadows (Make sure you're tanky first, but these are very good for initiating as Alistar lacks initiating power of other tanks/bruisers)
-Ohmwrecker

I always toss in a little bit or extra damage through ability power and some damage dealing abilities, but don't neglect tanky-ness.

-Sunfire Cape
-Abyssal Scepter
-Rylai's Crystal Scepter (I don't usually build this with Randuin's Omen)
-Iceborn Gauntlet (Not particulary good because its expensive and there are better slows for the price)

I want to keep this post short. But I would recommend you try out whatever you like on Alistar, as he is a very flexible champion. Try and figure out which role you would like to build him as, then find items that suit that role. I can help you if you ask more specific questions, but generally offensiveness isn't a primary goal on Alistar. While we're discussing it, Alistars Ultimate gives him a massive AD steroid, which makes it easier for him to deal damage through auto attacks while his spells are down. But do NOT waste the damage reduction component of it, as it is what allows Alistar to stay in the middle of a fight without spending a lot of money on defensive stats. It is also a powerful escape, but learning to use it to turn the tides of a bad fight allows Alistar to free up his allies to deal more damage. Activating too early or just for a little extra damage will severely cripple Alistar's fight sustain, and learning how to properly time it is key to playing an effective Alistar in any role. It is very useful during a tower dive as it allows you to take an extra 3-5 bolts more than other tanks who lack defensive abilities. It is also useful to clear strong crowd control to allow you to get better positioning. I can tell you all my secrets about using this ability, but practice is the only meaningful way for you to get better using it. Ask some more questions about specific things, but that's all I can really think of for an answer to your question.


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MiniJunkie

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Thanks guys! To be honest you both have answered my questions very well (especially M3Galodon!!). Thank you very much for the insights.


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Madraac

Senior Member

01-21-2013

First off, let me help answer your questions and then provide some more feedback from there.

As a support role, you should never kill minions until you are in the latter part of the game when team fights and roaming is happening all over. Do not ever steal the kills with Ali, unless they are at your tower, and no other friendly champ is nearby to get the gold. If possible, it is better to let the jungler come through and clean up for you. Ali is about the late game sustain and push he provides, as it is one of the best in the game, if you do not mind starting slowly. As an example, one of my proudest games with Ali was a 50+ minute game that went back and forth. In the end, we won, I had a record of 5/2/31 and a total CS of 9. I was proud of the 9CS more than the 31 assists, as it let every other champ farm up.

To your second question, your ult is most of your offensive need. You want to build Kages Lucky Pick, Philo Stone, boots, and Sightstone first. KAges will give you some AP, which is what you may end up building some damage with, but allows for a slow that you can target onto other friendly champs. Philo stone will let you build some health,CDR (hugely important on Ali), and another slow/speed buff when you complete into Shureyla's. Between the two buffs, it allows you to forego higher speed boots and go for either CDR, or defense, with the nod to defense normally more important on your boots, specifically getting MR boots for the tenacity effect. Sightstone and then going to a Ruby Sightstone is equivalent of GP/5 as you will not be placing down 75 gold multiple times, and in the long run saves you money in almost any game over 30 minutes long.

After that you have to look at situational needs. Aegis of the Legion is always a good choice due to the buff to MR and AR for all champs, plus providing health to you. What I have found with Ali, due to his long cooldowns, he is very mana efficient and so you normally do not need to focus on mana, as your core items give you enough regen, combined with the utility tree that I recommend as a support. From their, you need to look at what you and your team needs, AS speed, look to Zeke's, MR plus damage, Abyssal scepter, getting crushed quickly, sunfire or Randuin's Omen.

Second to last, learn to master the Q/W combo. If you do so, you will not need to worry about higher mobility boots like in the past. Now, with timing, you can headbutt, and once you learn the timing, ground stomp right as the headbutt lands, causing a double stun . Before, you had to position yourself to be way behind the enemy to land a headbutt to push them to your team. This is still a great and viable tactic, but not nearly as needed.

Finally, your job is to push lanes, and drop towers, not get kills, but it will happen. When it does, enjoy the boost in gold, buy something shiny, and go back and try to let the ADC or whomesver get the kills. The only time you should dive for a kill is if the enemy is pushing past their tower and escaping... then a headbutt for a kill is always viable, as the loss of experience, plus the gold that you get and the assist gold that your ADC gets is still more beneficial. Just be sure that you are not diving to only die yourself giving more gold to their ADC in the trade off. You can survive with a lot less gold then the ADC.


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MiniJunkie

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Thank you Madraac, that's fantastic guidance as well!


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M3GaL0d0n

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Sigh, the Q/W combo... I hated that for the longest time after I found out about it.. it's incredibly gimmicky, but it works. However, be aware that you cannot use this combo if you are too close to the enemy you are trying to headbutt, you must use headbutt at its max range or you will fail the combo and your enemy will be launched forward. This happens because of the mini channel on pulverize, you need to leave enough time for it complete. Also remember that a flash into pulverize is very powerful and allows you to headbutt squishy enemies into your team, because it dosen't waste headbutt as a gap closer. Shurelya's Reverie serves the same purpose as flash and allows you to get into the fight very quicky. But if you have another tank/bruiser who can initiate well (Malphite, Hecarim, Galio, etc...), just leave it to them and follow up with pulverize and headbutt to keep the enemy team locked up and out of position.

-GLHF