Self-healing reduced, but not shields?

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Volandum

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phourc View Post
2) The Grevious Wound items now both Suck with a capital 'S'. The stats suck, the morellonomicon ONLY applies the debuff if they're basically almost dead already, it's really hard to justify them even against high healers because you're putting yourself behind stat-wise.
While Executioner's is Terrible, Morellonomicon is efficient for the stats and a quick way of getting a lot of AP + CDR if you don't want to spend twice as much on Torch. Don't expect it to reduce any healing though!


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NAForumSmurf

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
There are a few things wrong with this. First, you assume that abilities are only used while in combat. Second, you don't take into account that since neither champ dies, when they disengage Damage on Janna sticks(assuming she doesnt ult), while Nidalee can heal it all back. Janna can shield herself all she wants outside of combat, but those Hit Points aren't coming back. And that's the point. Heals have a broader use-case than shields.
Sure, heals can be used out of combat (assuming you are beneath max health). Shields OTOH can be used at full health and thus be used more often in combat. Part of the counter play against heals is keeping the intervals between battles as short as possible, so the healer can't heal up to full health.

And again you are ignoring Grevious Wounds mechanics and the fact that the overwhelming majority of self-heals has (mostly in-combat) conditions attached to them. Nida, Soraka and Taric are exceptions (and not suprisingly all ally-heals).

But all this is beside the point. My point is that heals and shields are balanced as they are (that is for SR). There is no need for the healing reduction in Dom because there is no difference between Dom and SR in that aspect of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
Incorporating health relics into this argument is a little odd, as we are talking about a champion's ability to heal/shield themselves through abilities.
How is this odd??? It's spot on. You keep maintaining that heals are overpowered because they enable out-of-combat healing. Health Relics do just that - for everyone.
This by itself devalues healing abilities compared to shields.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
Sustain has been nerfed repeatedly in SR because of how problematic it is. See: Soraka W/R nerfs, Sona W nerfs, Nidalee E nerfs, Warwick Q nerfs, Udyr W nerfs, Mundo R nerfs, Chogath Passive Nerfs, Akali Passive Nerfs, Taric Q nerfs, Irelia W nerfs, Fiddle W nerfs, Vlad nerfs, Morgana Passive Nerfs, Rengar Empowered W nerfs, Swain R nerfs, Tryndamere's Q nerfs, Riven's passive HP regen nerfs, Crystaline Flask nerfs, Catalyst Nerfs, HP pot nerfs, Revolver+upgrade nerfs,and Vampiric Scepter nerfs. To say that SR is fine when it comes to this situation is kinda silly given its track record.
This is just cherry picking. First of all, nerfs are always done in the context of the entire skill set of a champ. As such a healing ability might be nerfed to balance a champ, because it is the easiest to do without overnerfing him or changing a defining ability. Second, I could make a list of healing buffs OR of shield nerfs that is just as long. In fact pretty much every ability in the game has been adjusted at some point. Construing a general problem with healing because of these changes doesn't make sense.

Again, all this doesn't explain why self-healing is gimped in Dom. Look at the facts: Most staple self-healers are at the bottom of the barrel in the tier lists and if they are higher they are picked in spite of their weaker healing (because they have some other, much more valuable ability that compensates for their useless healing ability). The only exception is Nunu bot lane, but keeping the healing debuff for a single champ is ridiculous.


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A Slime Appears

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Why bring up SR anyway? SR doesn't have you recalling nearly as often, doesn't have health relics, doesn't have mana aura. Apples and oranges and all that. I find heals to be a problem much more than shields. Soraka's heal, to me, is much more annoying than Riven's shield (although the rest of Riven is annoying as ****).


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Bunnle

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Get the spirit visage. Shields don't get their power increased by the visage. Maybe we should open up a thread about how unfair it is that there's no item in the game other than AP that increases shield power compared to what the visage offers.


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NAForumSmurf

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Slime Appears View Post
Why bring up SR anyway? SR doesn't have you recalling nearly as often, doesn't have health relics, doesn't have mana aura. Apples and oranges and all that. I find heals to be a problem much more than shields. Soraka's heal, to me, is much more annoying than Riven's shield (although the rest of Riven is annoying as ****).
The champions are balanced around SR. Changing things - like the healing debuff - means there must be differences in gameplay between SR and Dom that specifically call for it. However, in this case, I can't see them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnle View Post
Get the spirit visage. Shields don't get their power increased by the visage. Maybe we should open up a thread about how unfair it is that there's no item in the game other than AP that increases shield power compared to what the visage offers.
That's one item slot wasted on just removing an unfair debuff.
All shields benefit from resistances.
And unlike heals, shields do not suffer from the vulnerability to Grevious Wounds (for which there are 2 items AND a summoner spell, compared to 1 item that increases healing - by a lesser amount than Greavious Wounds reduces it).


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