Spellvamp Itemization

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The Fizznity

Senior Member

01-20-2013

I feel like spellvamp is underpowered right now on Dominion, only having niche/partial use on a couple of champions at best. There could be some arrangement involving special-casing spellvamp or tinkering with the overall heal penalty aura, but I think there should just be some fiddling with items to give better spellvamp choices. The following are some proposals for items to replace current spellvamp itemization:

Quote:
Hextech Staff
Replaces Hextech Revolver
Components: Amplification Tome + Amplification Tome + 730 Gold
+50 AP
UNIQUE Passive - Vampirism: 15% Spellvamp
This provides a base component for spellvamp that roughly matches the Revolver's effect on SR; 15% here = 12% after the 20% reduction, and the initial investment cost is a bit higher as a potential barricade for it to being OP.

Quote:
Volume of Dark Arts
Replaces Will of the Ancients
Components: Hextech Staff + Blasting Wand + 540 Gold
+100 AP
UNIQUE Passive - Vampirism: 25% Spellvamp
A heavy stat stick for those spellvamp users, again matching WotA's effective spellvamp and trading the aura for an additional 20 AP total.

Quote:
Scarred Crystal Shield
Components: Hextech Staff + Mana Crystal + 600 (2600)
+60 AP
+300 Mana
UNIQUE Passive - Vampirism: 10% Spellvamp
UNIQUE Passive: Gain 40 shield on spellcast. Stacks up to 5 times.
Sort of a mini Morde passive here, but combat oriented over push/semi sustain oriented.

Quote:
The Count's Cloak
Components: Hextech Staff + Chain Vest + 480 (2800)
+50 AP
+50 Armor
UNIQUE Passive - Vampirism: 10% Spellvamp
UNIQUE Passive: Heal 3% of your missing health on dealing magic damage. Does not apply to periodic damage or spells with cooldown at or below 1.5 seconds.
This is a tank health item. I wanted to avoid another AP+health item, because we already have 2 of those and I don't know if it would be a good idea to let casters itemize to +1000 health or more off of standard AP purchases.

The effect *does* proc on AoE and is *not* reduced by proccing off AoE. Reduction could be considered if it makes Swain or Vlad too hard to kill.



Numbers are tentative. Please don't skewer a concept based on how strong or weak it is.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

01-20-2013

I'd rather that spellvamp and healing from items (hp/5 mainly) were worth getting. The solution to both has always been very simple

For spellvamp = A Sanguine style item and reduce the reduction on AoE Spells, make it so 100% if an aoe spell only damages a single champion similar to how karthus Lay Waste works. Or just make it a flat 100% vs champions for this mode and have the healing reduction only occur vs minions.
For HP/5 = Have it ignore the healing aura and increased rates when out of combat.

We do not need to invent or create new items. The items are not the issue here.


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Palladine

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Those items would make Ryze seriously flip some tables on people.

<3


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
I'd rather that spellvamp and healing from items (hp/5 mainly) were worth getting. The solution to both has always been very simple

For spellvamp = A Sanguine style item and reduce the reduction on AoE Spells, make it so 100% if an aoe spell only damages a single champion similar to how karthus Lay Waste works. Or just make it a flat 100% vs champions for this mode and have the healing reduction only occur vs minions.
For HP/5 = Have it ignore the healing aura and increased rates when out of combat.

We do not need to invent or create new items. The items are not the issue here.
Items are one of Nome's primary tools for manipulating balance on this map. I had the far simpler idea of changing the 20% heal reduction changed to a 20% lifesteal penalty (the real/main reason why we have 20% self heal penalty), but it has troubling implications for some of the more gimmicky health champions like Vlad/Mundo/Swain/Soraka as a solo combatant.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

01-20-2013

I support anything that leads to Nunu being even more hilarious bot!


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Items are one of Nome's primary tools for manipulating balance on this map. I had the far simpler idea of changing the 20% heal reduction changed to a 20% lifesteal penalty (the real/main reason why we have 20% self heal penalty), but it has troubling implications for some of the more gimmicky health champions like Vlad/Mundo/Swain/Soraka as a solo combatant.
If the items were bad, but the items are not bad. Compared to other items with the same stat they are good items. What is bad is the stat itself, which is why something needs to be added to the aura to make the stat better just like the aura makes mp/5 better instead of us having around 10 new mp/5 items.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoidInsanity View Post
If the items were bad, but the items are not bad. Compared to other items with the same stat they are good items. What is bad is the stat itself, which is why something needs to be added to the aura to make the stat better just like the aura makes mp/5 better instead of us having around 10 new mp/5 items.
The problem is that items don't give enough spellvamp right now, and the ancillary point that spellvamp is really boring right now. You could hack the aura to only apply on lifesteal and innate heals but that feels weird and a very special-case-y solution for a problem that exists in one stat.

(Hp5 is never gonna be a relevant stat; its one that operates primarily over a laning phase and there is no laning phase that's slow enough for Hp5 to be relevant in all but the highest quantities)


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
The problem is that items don't give enough spellvamp right now, and the ancillary point that spellvamp is really boring right now. You could hack the aura to only apply on lifesteal and innate heals but that feels weird and a very special-case-y solution for a problem that exists in one stat.
Just like the aura currently hacks mp/5 to give everyone inf mana and make HP Casters/energy/manaless weaker. The stat itself is weak due to the reduction on aoe spells, last thing we need is to increase spellvamp and have all single target spells become heals, or single target spells that are heals become super heals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
(Hp5 is never gonna be a relevant stat; its one that operates primarily over a laning phase and there is no laning phase that's slow enough for Hp5 to be relevant in all but the highest quantities)
Same can be said about MP/5, but along came the aura.


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radicalratx

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by inFe eD View Post
I support anything that leads to Nunu being even more hilarious bot!

Make spellvamp work off of magic damage only if it currently works with true damage.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Spell vamp was balanced around being able to AoE 6-minion waves, so, since Dominion has 3-minion waves, AoE spell vamp should be twice as effective, so 66% back for AoE.

I'm not sure why they never applied the Mordekaiser shield minion reduction to spell vamp, because it seems kind of weak in team fights because of balancing its sustain in lane. It really should heal twice as much as it does now against champions, regardless of it being Dominion or not.

But, just because spell vamp isn't in a good place as a stat doesn't mean that it's in a good place for itemization. Right now your options for spell vamp are low/mid-tier AP item, high-tier support/AP item (how many teams have 2 AP champs top?), and high-tier AP/AD/lifesteal (how many champs need sustain and scale well with both AD and AP?) item. There's no high-tier solo AP option, no AD option (which we probably don't need here, because it would help champs that don't need it), and no tank option.


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