Possible balance to team generation

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Eruza

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01-20-2013

The concept of All Random All Mid is for the system to randomly assign you and your team champions without you getting to choose. This system does not by any means need to be fully random, however. An example of what I mean is the generator to assign champions to teams could follow some sort of balance formula to determine a team composition's chance of success, much like our ELO system for individual players. I feel if we assign point values to the champions and their possible combinations we can avoid things like an MF, Nidalee, Zilean, Lux, Sona comp vs. a Trynd, Udyr, Hecarim, Garen, Poppy comp of all equally skilled players.

A way to approach this is applying a score to each champion based on their win ratio on proving grounds against a team of your ELO (using our current team ELO calculations). If 1200 teams win 90% of their games with nidalee, than Nidalee would receive a high score value, while if 2000 teams only win 20% Nidalee would receive a low score value. We then incorporate a score limit for our team generator so it can't throw a ton of high ranking champs together, and the system must try to get as close to the score as possible.

Let's say for a moment we're at 1200 team ELO vs. 1200 team ELO and our team score cap is 100 points. Nidalee and blitz are both worth 40 at this rating. The team generator can place both of these characters on the same team, but will then only have 20 points left to use for 3 champions which comes to about 7 points per champion, so the team would be forced to relatively rely on their blitz and nid, or risk losing the match. in combination with this let's say amumu is worth 20 points and MF is 25 points. If the matchmaker puts them on the same team that is 55 points. However, these two champions do really well together, so the system would adjust and has now used 70 points, leaving 30 points which is about 10 points per champion.

I hope these examples help display the possible system and would love feedback from you guys!


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Lycanblu

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Dodges would be less frequent if we simply couldn't see the other team. We aren't picking so it's not like seeing who they picked helps us do anything other than decide, do i reaaaaalllyyy want this flash?

It's not random if there's a clear math to the hypothetical strength of a team. I've seen really, REALLY bad nidalees and blitzcranks, and some lesser known or popular champions kick arse. It's just as much a matter of player skill and intuition as it is character limitations. EVERY champion can be the most useful champion on the team, depending on the composition of both your, and the enemy teams, and the individual skill level of the players.


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Lycanblu

Senior Member

01-21-2013

A system that forces players into less effective champions because a team mate randomed a "higher" ranking one is a flawed system that pretty much defines anti-fun.

You do not want a system that purposely restricts the champion choices in all random, and it's no fun to know that the only reason you didn't get a cool champion you wanted was because the arse-hat who's going to be spamming how good he is all game playing an ARAM effective champion, got lucky.

And as a non-ranked player, an Elo system would be entirely meaningless to judge my level of skill with Champion X or Y.

All in all, the idea is too complicated, and not fun for any of the players that would have gotten someone else, if they weren't autolocked into a champion because the system isn't actually random.


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Eruza

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01-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanblu View Post
A system that forces players into less effective champions because a team mate randomed a "higher" ranking one is a flawed system that pretty much defines anti-fun.

You do not want a system that purposely restricts the champion choices in all random, and it's no fun to know that the only reason you didn't get a cool champion you wanted was because the arse-hat who's going to be spamming how good he is all game playing an ARAM effective champion, got lucky.

And as a non-ranked player, an Elo system would be entirely meaningless to judge my level of skill with Champion X or Y.

All in all, the idea is too complicated, and not fun for any of the players that would have gotten someone else, if they weren't autolocked into a champion because the system isn't actually random.
How is this any different from the current system? Right now you can randomly get a full set of lame champs, a full set of awesome champs, or something random in between. The same goes for your opponents. What the system hopes to accomplish is not just limiting you to having a weaker champion, but stopping the enemy team from roflstomping you guys cause they got 3 awesome champs to your 2 awesome champs.


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LrdVprScrpn

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eruza View Post
How is this any different from the current system? Right now you can randomly get a full set of lame champs, a full set of awesome champs, or something random in between. The same goes for your opponents. What the system hopes to accomplish is not just limiting you to having a weaker champion, but stopping the enemy team from roflstomping you guys cause they got 3 awesome champs to your 2 awesome champs.
You answered your own question. Right now it's up in the air. In the proposed system the program would force you into a champion archetype based on the rest of your team.

And who says what "balanced" is anyway? Often in the "worst possible ARAM team" threads you see a lot of teams that would actually be very effective.

Truth is there is no perfect team for ARAM. People perceive different combinations to be overpowered, but truly unmatched teams are a lot more rare than these people would lead you to believe.