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The Boots:

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Yasei Doubutsu

Member

01-20-2013

thats a good agument, but i would rather 4 hit people because they dont have boots anyway.
And i would only get boots first on people like hecarim, and other fat asses.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

01-20-2013

What champion are you 4-hitting with and what item are you purchasing to 4-hit with?


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Yasei Doubutsu

Member

01-20-2013

I have a pure Ad rune page, giving me + 20 dmg
Then with either Yi or Fiora I get Wuju style/Repostle giving me +15 damage.
Then get Dorans or a long sword to = 120+ damage

At the start of the game.


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Yasei Doubutsu

Member

01-20-2013

This means if i have someone that can stun or snare them i usually get first blood every single time, I then just focus the squishy's and get fed off them.
Usually an exhaust helps or if someone else exhaust and stuns them either way its good.
I even solo'd top against Ez and Garren and got fed off them too.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Fiora's base movement speed is 350.
Fiora's base attack damage is 54.5 at level one.

If you maximize attack damage in your masteries, the most level 1 attack damage you can get is 15.
(You also get +2% damage, and some armor penetration, which I'll come back to.)

If you go purely flat AD runes, you can get 21.69 AD there.

Fiora's Riposte gives her 15 extra AD at rank 1.


So all total, level 1 Fiora has 106.19 attack damage.

Buy a long sword or a Doran's, and you're up to 116.19.



Let's assume this is blind pick and you're up against another Fiora, just, whatever...

Let's look at some of Fiora's other starting stats. Base health, 450. Base health regen, 6.3. Base armor, 15.5. Fiora's passive and her Riposte active also help her stay alive, but we're assuming this is like a target-dummy Fiora... except that she's gonna run away.

Now, this Fiora also has one of my rune pages... so what's relevant here is 4.5% move speed from quints and 13 armor from runes.

That brings her total armor up to 28.5. Her move speed, is (350 + 25[boots]) * 1.045 = 391.875. (For clarity, one point of movement speed translates to moving one game unit per second.)

The difference in movement speed here is 41.875, so with each second that passes, boots Fiora moves 41.875 range away from damage Fiora. So, for starters, if Boots Fiora started running away immediately after getting hit the first time, and was hit right at Damage Fiora's range, Boots Fiora would only get hit once and Damage Fiora would never catch up.

Another thing to look at here is Fiora's range versus this movement speed difference. Let's assume they start right on top of each other (somehow). Fiora's range is 125. It would take Boots Fiora just 2.98 seconds to move out of Damage Fiora's range even if they started in the exact same position. How many auto-attacks could Damage Fiora get off in this time?

Well, Fiora's base attack speed is 0.672. If we assume you also took attack speed masteries, you get an extra 4%. So, that bumps her attack speed up to 0.699.

Now, attack speed, for reference, is the number of auto-attacks a champion makes per second. A champion with a 1.0 attack speed makes 1 attack per second. A champion with a 2.0 attack speed makes 2 attacks per second. A champion capped out at 2.5 attack speed would make 5 auto-attacks in 2 seconds. Fiora's auto-attacks at level 1 with the attack speed masteries will land about 2 hits in three seconds.

The way to calculate exactly how many hits a champion will land in any given period of time is by multiplying attack speed by time.

So remember, Boots Fiora is in range for 2.98 seconds. Damage Fiora has a 0.699 attack speed.

2.98 * 0.699 = 2.08302 auto-attacks... and you can't get a partial auto-attack, so this number is rounded down to 2.


So, just so we're clear, Boots Fiora can actually manage to take just 2 auto-attacks from damage Fiora even when Boots Fiora gets retardedly out of position ONLY by doing two things

1) Purchasing boots at level 1 rather than damage
2) Taking MS quints rather than damage

Ultimately, she actually only gives up 16.75 attack damage making these options.

But anyway, how much damage do your two auto-attacks do?


Well, remember Boots Fiora had 28.5 armor. And Damage Fiora had 116.19 attack damage.

So first part of the equation is calculating damage after armor (whether you apply the 2% before or after armor will make no difference).

So, first Fiora ignores 8% of Boots Fiora's armor, so that knocks her down to 26.22 armor. Next, she has +5 armor penetration, so Boots Fiora's effective armor is 21.22.

Armor works as a damage modifier. The equation for finding the damage modifier looks like this:

100 / (100 + armor ) = damage modifier

So in our case, 100/121.22 = 0.825.

Multiply this by Damage Fiora's AD to determine how much damage she does.

0.825 * 116.19 = 95.85.

and then by 1.02 to account for Havoc masteries.

1.02 * 95.85 = 97.77.


So Damage Fiora does 97.77 damage per auto-attack to Boots Fiora.


In the scenario where Boots Fiora is ridiculously out of position and running away, Damage Fiora would deal 195.53 damage to Boots Fiora, who would then be out of range, popping some of her 3 potions and regenerating at 6.3 health per second. And that's assuming she's not last-hitting to proc her passive.

And remember, Fiora's base health is 450. So, it would actually take you 5 auto-attacks to kill her. But you're not going to be in range for that long. Fiora would have to walk up to you with less than 40% health for you to kill her without her running away.


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AdgharKH

Member

01-20-2013

Pogo: I didn't read any of that, but I trust you. Can you give the results for all possible matchups between Damage Yi, Boots Yi, Damage Fiora, and Boots Fiora?


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

01-20-2013

No.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

01-20-2013

And let's be clear... I'm not saying that boots are the definitively best starting item.

I'm just saying that your long sword only matters if you're in range of your opponent. Boots help you stay in range. Armor only matters if you're taking any damage at all from your opponent (or if you're Rammus or Malphite and scale to it), and boots help you avoid taking damage from your opponent.

Moreover, boots help you escape ganks entirely.


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Yasei Doubutsu

Member

01-20-2013

I know, and you made a great agument.
But most champ have about 500 Starting HP.
But i also said my laning partner would CC or exhaust them.
Mind you though, i enjoyed reading your comment.
I love it when people actually put thought and brains into posts.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Yasei Doubutsu:
I know, and you made a great augment.
But most champ have about 500 Starting HP.
But i also said my laning partner would CC or exhaust them.
Mind you though, i enjoyed reading your comment.
I love it when people actually put thought and brains into posts.

500 HP is more than Fiora... so would be harder to kill.

Also... Fiora isn't an ADC or support... so she doesn't have a laning partner typically...