Warwick is bad, here some of the many reasons why

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questir

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Jungle: no pressure till lvl 6 and slow clearing time. Even if you manage to get lvl 6 and gank ONE lane you can't do anything about the other lanes till your ultimate is up again because WW kit is designed to put gank pressure only when he has ult. If we compare WW with junglers they have any form of CC non ultimate based or a huge burst and Warwick don't have any of these.
There is 0 reason to pick WW over Skarner because he can do everything what WW does but better and we all know Skarner isn't popular these days so when is Warwick coming back? I don't know but we all know he disappeared since S1

Lanewick: WW top is a sustain based lane. He doesn't have a huge trade potential like any other top laners but that's fine because the sustain is what keeps WW in lane and that may make him win trades or lane in the short or long term. But either way Lanewick got worse a lot and indirectly nerf in S3 beacuse now everyone starts with a lot of sustain, 9 pots and a ward or that kind of stuff. That makes WW's sustain worse because the other top laner have enought sustain till WW cast 4 times Q and goes OOM leaving him without anything to trade, yes he goes OOM after 4 casts and he has one of the worst mana pools of the game


Some quotes:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elefes View Post
I think some1 said that jungle WW faided cause everything he can do, Skarner can do better. And even Scarner is forgotten lately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AverageRengar NA View Post
Warwick's kit is super outdated and he needs a rework. Two of his skills are more or less useless:

His W is basically a 'jungle only' ability as it doesn't offer much in lane or in ganks. It has some utility late-game when you can get it on your ADC, but even then, Nunu's bloodboil is much more useful and 'satisfying'.

His E is really bad. Like, really really bad. First off, it doesn't even show stealthed champs (wtf?). Secondly, this skill itself is a relic of an old game. It's a skill that requires the enemy to be at a certain % of health and then gives you... vision and a MS buff. Okay, and...?

E is super conditional to begin with, and even when the conditions are met, what can you do with it? It's not like WW can -do- anything after chasing you with his E on. He can Q you, but that's about it.

I mean, WW's Q and R are great. It's just his W and E, really; they don't fit in with the game as it is right now. His kit was perfectly fine when there were only a handful of champs in the game. But as the game grew, and with each champion release, WW's kit started to become more and more silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by questir
I played WW top a lot by the end of S2 and start of S3 (around plat elo). In S2 you could trade decently because everyone started boot+3 and the harrass you did with Q was noticeable but in S3 i noticed everything changed for Lanewick because now everyone starts with godly sustain and the damage you do with Q is just healed by that sustain start and we all know WW has one of the worst mana pools of the game. And the game now have a lot of mobility creep and the Black cleaver makes everything worse to WW.


Just move on WW isn't anymore what he used to be a "unmovable top laner" and he is on bad spot. Lanewick is designed to have poor trade potential but have the ability to stay in lane more longer than other top laners so you can keep trading because of the sustain but now EVERYONE have equal or more sustain than WW does at the start. The sustain start screwed him and there is a lot of better top laners with a better sustain who don't depend on mana (Cho, Vlad, Lee, etc)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanthalis View Post
I'm an old school WW main. First main, first jungler, first champ that really made me want to keep playing League. I agree with most of the above. He's outdated and out classed.

I mostly like his W, I think just a passive would help a lot. With 40% CDR it's up all the time and combined with his passive he has a built in mini Wit's End, but that takes time.

His E is in a bad spot. It is completely conditional and when that condition isn't met he gains absolutely no benefit from the ability. That is totally inconsistent with current champ design.

Also many, if not most, new champs have a lot of utility packed into one ability. Skarner has a move speed, atk spd and shield ability. Shyvana has a move speed and AoE dmg. Her E is dmg and armor reduction. Skarners is damage and sustain. Most champs have something like this or some kind of condition for skill in order to improve the ability (Ahri's Q on the return does true dmg for example). WW has nothing like this. His W does one thing. His E gives vision as well as move, but again is conditionally useless.

His E needs an active. Maybe an on demand burst of speed, some kind of raging wolf leap or something.

Also, since he only has 1 ability to depend on for damage, getting max CDR is essential on him. Building almost all tanky is as well since he can only derp around melee between Q's and his ult surpresses him as long as it surpresses the target. I won't say this is a huge problem, but I feel his builds are limited. I've always thought AD felt bad on him as only his ult scales on bonus AD but still does magic damage. Also, it's difficult to get magic pen without building AP on him which doesn't feel great to buy either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy01741 View Post

Here are the problems with Warwick's jungling:

-Slow clear speed
-Terribad ganking before level 6 (need significant help from lane allies+red buff to do much anything)
-Slow to level 6 due to jungle changes+slow clear speed
-Easy to invade (no movespeed buff or slow or hard CC to punish/duel an invading jungler)
-Dependence on blue buff for quicker clearing (so you can spam Q at least)
-Dependence on blue for continued ganking (R+Q+W with no blue means you have to back to base to have enough mana to gank again)

The only good things about his junging are:
-Strong sustain
-Good at dueling.... if you can get an enemy to duel with you
-Good at diving/chasing due to his E
Quote:
Originally Posted by GamersLegends View Post
I would love to see some tweaks on him.. totally agree that his kit is outdated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AverageRengar NA View Post
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...any=true#gid=2

He clears faster than jungle Malzahar.

Barely.

And it's not the fact that he's slow, it's the fact that he's slow and has little to no gank potential pre-6. He has no jungle presence at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullettime7 View Post
Where's he's too constrained by mana to use his Q as consistent harass/sustain, no true ranged harass, has to melee last hit, can't force a fight without his long cooldown ulti, and has no sticking power until he has Frozen Mallet?

He's not completely horrendous in lane but he's extremely situational and is the epitome of a counterpick...And even then, there's still better picks than him against every matchup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Vegas Dad View Post
Been saying this for a while. WW is bad his kit is bad, and the last 2 nerfs on WW were totally knee jerk and totally unwarranted. I had over 1k ranked games with WW last season, I played him 4 times this season.

Look Q, got overnerfed. It takes huge mana, but it was literally his entire kit.

W) attack speed boost, except he has short attack range, and noone stands there AAing with him, to make matter worse his kit dictated a build designed for auto attacking is not viable. So attack speed does nothing for warwick

e) cool if you get low I ran fast. Meanwhile lee sin actually teleports directly onto you, and has this aoe slow., which can be used to teleport away from anything as well. A simple passive run speed boost is useless if you dont have a kit to leverage it, worst part IT TELLS THE ENEMY THAT YOU ARE CLOSE so who cares if i run faster they "see me coming" and just run to safety.

R) Ultimate is okay, but channeled ults are meh, so many ways to interupts them now adays, worse though, WW ult scales of AD BONUS now, and does magic dmg? on a champ that cant build AD or AP in the first place?

WW needs a serious clean up he is currently garbage kit is a mess of oxymorons, and outdated skills that do "nothing" for a champ of his design, with terrible costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSI Starstorm View Post
Jayce and Elise didn't exist yet, and Teemo and Olaf weren't popular (Teemo fotm died after the nerfs, but whatever). Combine that with the fact that most people thought lanewick was bad and then they get surprised when, holy ****, he actually killed them?!
All I'm saying that if Warwick got unnerfed today most people wouldn't notice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Vegas Dad View Post
it doesnt matter you are missing the point, even WW single target dmg is lackluster. His ganks are awful pre 6, and honestly nothing that special post 6 either. I Think alot of people have very poor understanding about this game. Let me illustrate for you.

WW ult is nothing more that a long CD glorified chogath Q. Everyone is like OMG WW suppress me I can do anything and die! Well turns out chogath Q knocks you up, and you cannot do anything, PLUS it slows you, and it really does about the same dmg if you max q (i dont recommend it though) But it also has like a 12 second cd? so really ww ult is **** when i can play chogath hit Q all day from range, that disable you, THEN slow you on a 12 sec CD.

WW kit is bad his ult is icnredbily overrated, and there is no builds that give him synergy at all.

Abilites that do magic dmg, but scale off AD? So bad. Ablties that boost your auto attack but a kit that does magic dmg? It is a mess really.

PS his mana costs are ridiculous anyone that says anything else is a liar. you can do 3 Q early game before you have no mana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadShot305 View Post
I still dont understand. Especially Cho, I mean he is so tanky, HUGE health sustain and mana sustain and his Q is more reliable than Warwicks ult in teamfights, It is un QSS'able and the only downside is that it is a skill shot, it also has a big slow after it, and jungle wise his clear is better and his early ganks are better. But personally i think he should be balanced around top lane. ATM He loses almost all trades at top lane and his Q, which barley heals him these days uses like half his mana, also if he does try heal off of minions he loses all trading potential, so he has almost nothing going for him.

Ok sure that was me just comparing him to Cho Gath, but if you realise something all the other champions have something going for them other than sustain, and the only thing warwick has is late game. But who lets him get to late game anyways?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dues Pater View Post
every pro player knows ww jungle is very bad even snoopehit in a interview today (30/1/2013) and even saintvicous says his ganks are nonexistent pre six and he is still bad even when he reaches six. Its pretty obivious if u think about you jjust play a couple jungle games with him. He could use a kit tune up he doesnt need a complete rework in my opinion
Some interesting topic:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3055422


"He just don't fit in the current meta"
You know how many times the meta shifted since S2 till today and he never got a chance to shine no matter what kind of meta was


TL DR: WW kit is outdated and needs to be reworked or give him some kind of buff and please requesting a RED response


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questir

Senior Member

01-20-2013

bump


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DeclinedPiranha

Member

01-20-2013

WW is not only bad, but he's excruciatingly boring.


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Bananoid

Senior Member

01-20-2013

He's still stupidly strong if ignored


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Minishmaster

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Midwick is still a solid pick in a number of matchups, but he needs a high damage top to make up for him. His ability to block the enemy from maneuvering is unsurpassed in mid, though.


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questir

Senior Member

01-20-2013

bump


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Elefes

Senior Member

01-20-2013

I think some1 said that jungle WW faided cause everything he can do, Skarner can do better. And even Scarner is forgotten lately. I would love to see WW Q to apply speed debuff, or his E to fear.


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OpenSheep

Senior Member

01-20-2013

He does need a buff, but as a ww player he is not as bad as you make him sound.
He takes more skill and is more dependent on decent team mates.


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swilson

Senior Member

01-20-2013

You're right in terms of competitive play but below 1500 elo people are so bad you can just walk to their lane and kill them with ww at level 2 and 4


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Rimmie Zoe

Member

01-20-2013

WW is a beast but Im not gonna say why cuz people will catch on like Riot caught on to building Sion the right way and im not ready for that yet so <_< .. >_> shhhhh !!!


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