@Xyph, is resists being less effective than health in S3 bad design?

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Vejoviis

Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post

Naturally, this has the flipside of making certain resistance focused tanks weaker - but that's something I feel like we should solve on resistance based tanks. So please, if there's a particular resistance based tank that feels weak, let us know.
The majority of Skarner's tankiness came from trying to net as much ehp from his shield as possible, using attack speed and CDR in addition to stacking resists. Now that both have been significantly nerfed attack speed and resists, in addition to Shurelias and the base stats of Aegis (Skarner's S2 Core) being worse than S2, Skarner's durability leaves something to be desired considering he has to walk (scuttle) into 350 range to do anything.

I did a lot of math (and testing 93/47 in ranked and a few hundred normals with him) for Season two itemization on Skarner (Proof: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2a2hhaXc#gid=0, I realise though that AD quints are sub-optimal, I was experimenting with them at the time because they gave a slightly faster clear time and more early game damage) the strongest realistic six item builds involved having 400+ resists, full CDR, and attack speed as a late/final item (provided they didn't have a lot of aoe CC) ex: GA/Shurelias/FH/Randuins/Merc Treads/Wits End, which was the Yolo Queue play for lategame build (Credit: Skarnold Trump, one of the better Skarner players on the NA server, incidentally he is 1/3 with Skarner in S3). Skarner experienced the most efficient stat multiplicity for tankiness by buying resists and attack speed (provided he was not burstable or worth focusing).

Also I have a thread (primarily) regarding the nerf too Skarner's ult. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...0#post31771850

Anyways, I want to thank you Xyph for all your hard work and interaction/ seeking and responding to feedback with the community.

EDIT: I have basically stopped playing Skarner, with whom I have played ~33% of my games, primarily because the ult nerf making his play style different (thus making me nostalgically sad), but also in a small part because his S3 itemization is so bad compared to S2 .


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Sagethyme

Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
As to items being much less of a problem - one click is still one click too many.
Could a text notice for the enemy team, triggered when the holder is first seen from fog of war, be a fix? Similar to how second tier items appear in team chat when one completes them.


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IS13c7fafe7804f7429d10e

Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Clearly, what you're telling me here is the Leblanc's spells should be area of effect and apply radiation to her enemies.
I just came here to say that this idea is totally awesome.


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

01-24-2013

tanks and bruiser are in horrible spot in S3. I just can't believe olaf is getting nerfed like that + increasement cost of warmog. I mean melee are just totally useless. not only you reduced warmog hp by 30%, (i dont understand why it's a buff to olaf seriously, olaf scale with hp and it got heavily nerfed..) but also reduced armor. that's like a 40% resistance nerf in total, not to mention bruiser damage are completly low now. the 2 items that boosted the most dps in season 2 was madred and trinity force. madred got removed and trinity nerfed.

I don't have the winratio of champs, but its sound so obvious i don't even need it, don't you see winrate of melee/tank are horrible ? i'm sure even olaf is among the top 30worst champs too.


I'm sorry, but it's all about ap caster, cc and global ulti.


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Cloud Potato

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goumindong View Post
snip
Not going to argue against you, but I'd like to make one point. Making Health the better defensive item to begin with was intentional. Armor gets better as you buy more Health. This is the way they wanted it; before you built Armor and MR and then ealth afterward.

Also, please do a comparison of how much EHP you get from Armor against an enemy with Armor pen vs without Armor Pen, because if Armor is really useless, then this should reflect this rather than a direct comparison with Health.


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Ashaira

Adjudicator

01-24-2013

Ever thought about giving a tooltip stating how much an item would increase ur EHP?

This may not solve the UI problem but it will present resists better over the course of several games.

For example you have 1k hp and 50 armor. U go to the shop click on chain vest once and below its stats is a line of text that says "This will increase your EHP versus physical dmg by X ammount" with X being red for armor and blue for magic and and in case of buying items that would increase ur EHP differently for the 2 types of dmg (pure hp items or items with multiple stats) you can have 2 lines, one for each type of dmg.

This will help players understand the game better AND present resists better.


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Cloud Potato

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaira View Post
Ever thought about giving a tooltip stating how much an item would increase ur EHP?

This may not solve the UI problem but it will present resists better over the course of several games.

For example you have 1k hp and 50 armor. U go to the shop click on chain vest once and below its stats is a line of text that says "This will increase your EHP versus physical dmg by X ammount" with X being red for armor and blue for magic and and in case of buying items that would increase ur EHP differently for the 2 types of dmg (pure hp items or items with multiple stats) you can have 2 lines, one for each type of dmg.

This will help players understand the game better AND present resists better.
Attack Speed needs this treatment too. We see AS values in attacks per second but the stat boosts base AS, which isn't shown unless you have no AS boosts.


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Ashaira

Adjudicator

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud Potato View Post
Attack Speed needs this treatment too. We see AS values in attacks per second but the stat boosts base AS, which isn't shown unless you have no AS boosts.
it is if you hover over the stat in the UI. it show the base AS (grey) + bonus AS (green or yellow cant remember)


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Cloud Potato

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaira View Post
it is if you hover over the stat in the UI. it show the base AS (grey) + bonus AS (green or yellow cant remember)
I used to think this too, but your Attack Speed increases per level show up in the green part, and it is counted in your base AS. It's confusing as hell and is very stupid.


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Ashaira

Adjudicator

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud Potato View Post
I used to think this too, but your Attack Speed increases per level show up in the green part, and it is counted in your base AS. It's confusing as hell and is very stupid.
wait. what? last time i looked the grey number did update with ur per level as.

Da **** did u break this time riot?