Nidalee's Javelin throw

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Jasiwel

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarksideEric View Post
I wonder why...
The problem with that is simply how bad it's spammed. It literally forces one to constantly move and even then it's not always evadable. When it hits it's almost an unreasonable punish in the early game, which is really when I only have an issue with it. For how easy it is to spam and how much damage it does (can knock a Champ to half health in one hit early game) early game, I think it needs a reduction for EARLY GAME. It isn't imbalanced by any means mid-late game and I completely agree its function to force movement, give punishment for stagnant movement is okay at the mid-late game point.


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DarksideEric

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiwel View Post
The problem with that is simply how bad it's spammed. It literally forces one to constantly move and even then it's not always evadable. When it hits it's almost an unreasonable punish in the early game, which is really when I only have an issue with it. For how easy it is to spam and how much damage it does (can knock a Champ to half health in one hit early game) early game, I think it needs a reduction for EARLY GAME. It isn't imbalanced by any means mid-late game and I completely agree its function to force movement, give punishment for stagnant movement is okay at the mid-late game point.
Except for the fact it's easily avoided even in early game...


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Jasiwel

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarksideEric View Post
Except for the fact it's easily avoided even in early game...
You are correct, but the problem I keep seeing is the fact that even after successfully evading for a while, being hit because of one mistaken click will put you in a possibly bad situation. I'm okay with the punish and pressure, but I think it just punishes a little too much.


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DarksideEric

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiwel View Post
You are correct, but the problem I keep seeing is the fact that even after successfully evading for a while, being hit because of one mistaken click will put you in a possibly bad situation. I'm okay with the punish and pressure, but I think it just punishes a little too much.
I missed a Q/E combo with Jarvan mid, hence a "mistake" and was thoroughly punished by Kat one game and LeBlanc another.

They too should be nerfed then, because they capitalized on my screw up?


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Jasiwel

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarksideEric View Post
I missed a Q/E combo with Jarvan mid, hence a "mistake" and was thoroughly punished by Kat one game and LeBlanc another.

They too should be nerfed then, because they capitalized on my screw up?
Errr, no. There's a difference between making a mistake by deciding to attack then being punished up-front by an opponent and being punished because of not dodging one ability that's used constantly from Brush. Yes it pressures and yes it punishes if you're not moving, but if you're moving and evading yet it still hits because you can't see it ahead of time or move in time, it just punishes too much. I'm not saying do a ridiculous nerf. I'm saying slightly reduce the damage it does early game.


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DarksideEric

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasiwel View Post
Errr, no. There's a difference between making a mistake by deciding to attack then being punished up-front by an opponent and being punished because of not dodging one ability that's used constantly from Brush. Yes it pressures and yes it punishes if you're not moving, but if you're moving and evading yet it still hits because you can't see it ahead of time or move in time, it just punishes too much. I'm not saying do a ridiculous nerf. I'm saying slightly reduce the damage it does early game.
If you can't see it ahead of time because it was coming from the brush, you should be punished for not warding on zoning properly.

The spear itself is not the only thing that matters when considering the punishment.


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Jasiwel

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarksideEric View Post
If you can't see it ahead of time because it was coming from the brush, you should be punished for not warding on zoning properly.

The spear itself is not the only thing that matters when considering the punishment.
You realize I'm talking about Levels 1-6 right? At the same time you can't zone and ward every time, especially that early in the game. Even if you do, there are a lot of variables to consider and this ability does so much. It's a single ability with a relatively small cooldown that can force one to lose experience, lose health, lose gold, force into position for gank or away from turret, and that's simply too much so early. It forces the target to do too much just to avoid losing half of full health early game and causes too much damage. You keep making the argument "don't screw up," when that isn't sufficient when considering just how much damage this ability does so early. All I'm saying is that it needs slightly less damage in the early game. It's not like Nidalee is super squishy or can't tackle you if you confront her.


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Glugthefirst

Member

01-20-2013

another way to look at this is that while nidalee is trying to hit you with a spear from brush, she isnt farming, so provided im safe behind my minions and farming, then ive gained an advantage. I believe the damage is fine as it is. If were talking about levels 1-6, then isnt the counterplay just to stay closer to her? I havent played enough against nidalee to know whether this is true or not, but it seems the logical thing to do.


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Jasiwel

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glugthefirst View Post
another way to look at this is that while nidalee is trying to hit you with a spear from brush, she isnt farming, so provided im safe behind my minions and farming, then ive gained an advantage. I believe the damage is fine as it is. If were talking about levels 1-6, then isnt the counterplay just to stay closer to her? I havent played enough against nidalee to know whether this is true or not, but it seems the logical thing to do.
In my experience, if you stay too close to her then you risk being jumped by her and her teammate or from midlane. Granted you would have a teammate to help you if it were a 2v2 situation, the risk factor involved and the consequences if it ends badly simply aren't worth staying close. At the same time, she can evade you easier and re-situate herself when she's in Brush, plus she is mobile enough out of Brush to reposition for a good throw. For one ability that can be cast every 6 seconds, I think it's just a tad too strong, not mentioning the range it can reach aside from the damage it has at maximum range which can remove more than half of health.


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ZEZTEK

Junior Member

01-21-2013

I totally agree you can chase her when she is low ( As garen Tank biult) and just 5 hits with a spear killed me.i also ran after 3 shots but as cougar form she ran me down. i did dodge allot but my team mates (AP ones) 2 shots with spear.. killed them. way to OP. Please reduce damage to her. Thank you


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