Add a Stun to Fiora's Riposte

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Novä

Member

01-28-2013

buy karma, learn to play her, go back to fiora, win rate 100%


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Mith Knite

Member

01-29-2013

Just use exhaust...


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mith Knite View Post
Just use exhaust...
but then I can't flash ignite when I fail to kill things as a carry

the support should carry two exhausts for me

ಠ_ಠ gawsh! freaking noobiez!


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Rhengorne

Senior Member

01-30-2013

I don't think a short stun would be a problem, id be fine with a slow... just something to help her be more viable in lane.

In response to giving something like this to a carry being op due to carry damage output realize that vayne(stun/KB), ashe (slow/stun), trist(slow), graves(slow/smoke), Draven who does insane damage (slow/knock), Cait (slow/trap), Tryn (massive slow and dmg reducer), MF (Slow aoe), Urgot (slow/range/lock on qs/suppression), Varus (slow heal reduc/immob), Xin (Knock/slow/KB), Twitch (slow/stealth), TF when played as AD tho rare (stun, slow, tele, reveal), Kog Maw(slow/reveal).

Most of these are balanced out by squishiness, which i'd say is balanced out by fiora being melee.

The number of "carries" who have CC FAR outweighs those who do not:
Ezreal: who still have a teleport/as slow
Corki: Has a reveal
Yi: Still has highlander
Sivir: still has Spellshield

Edit: Is there a reason this completely factual set of facts was down voted with no explanation?


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Absolute 42

Senior Member

01-30-2013

I don't think giving Fiora CC is the answer to her problems.

When reworking a champion, Riot works hard to keep the original flavor and playstyle of the champion. Part of Fiora's playstyle is that she brings no CC to the table, just damage and mobility.

I'll give an example. When Riot reworked Kat, a lot of people were saying she needs CC to be viable, but Kat's lack of CC was part of her distintive playstyle. So she got reworked without CC and now she's been played in several major tournaments.

What I'm saying is that Fiora can be 100% viable without CC. Yes, a melee carry is a totally different beast than an AP carry (Kat). In my opinion, Fiora needs stronger defenses. A character that needs to build glass to be effective has to have built-in defenses in her abilities.

Jax is a good example of a character with built-in defenses. He can dodge all autos for a few seconds, stun in an area, and his ulti gives him a defensive steroid. As crazy as it sounds, Fiora needs more than that, but in different ways. For a melee carry like Fi to be viable, she needs some combination of defensive steroids, CC immunity, cleanses, shields, heals, blocks, untargetability, etc.

Riot has tried to do this with melee carries. Tryn has his no-death-period and a heal, Fi has untargetability and Riposte to block one auto, and Yi has Slow Immunity on his ult and defensive steroids/healing on Meditate. But the fact that none of these are viable on a tournament level should tell you that these defensive abilities are not enough. They either need more inborn defenses so they can live while building glass, or the class needs to be reworked entirely.

One last thing: note that no melee carry so far has strong CC. That's because CC pushes AD champs to be assassins or bruisers. Strong CC + burst build = assassin; Strong CC + tank/mixed build = bruiser. This means that CC is not the answer for melee carries. Instead, their kits should be distinctly anti-CC. They should counter CC, so to speak. This is the answer to the melee carry conundrum for Riot, and this is how they should think about melee carries as they eventually rework Tryn, Fiora, and AD Yi.


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Galgus

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Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute 42 View Post
What I'm saying is that Fiora can be 100% viable without CC. Yes, a melee carry is a totally different beast than an AP carry (Kat). In my opinion, Fiora needs stronger defenses. A character that needs to build glass to be effective has to have built-in defenses in her abilities.
The entire premise of a Melee ADC is that they don't have stat durability.

Tryndamere and Fiora can both ult for extra survivability, what Melee ADCs really need is a decent item to counter CC shutdown, not boring stat durability that undermines their play-style.


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Snipawolfe

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galgus View Post
The entire premise of a Melee ADC is that they don't have stat durability.

Tryndamere and Fiora can both ult for extra survivability, what Melee ADCs really need is a decent item to counter CC shutdown, not boring stat durability that undermines their play-style.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...urial_Scimitar


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Galgus

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Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
An item that does nothing against knock-up and displacement CC and won't help in CC focus heavy scenarios where they would want it.

If your getting focused down by CC, Gaurdian Angel is almost always a more reliable option to aid against it.

I actually made a suggestion to solve these flaws: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3035826


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Snipawolfe

Senior Member

01-30-2013

You said "CC shutdown." What do you want, an Olaf ult on all melee carries? I think changing Mercurial Scimitar like you suggest to give a short one would be for the better because it's seldom used, but it's still heavily underrated and really strong when someone knows how to use it.

You could also bring Cleanse since it reduces CC by 65% for three seconds and clears current CC effects.

A good way to deal with being chain-CCed is to build tanky instead of glass cannon. They'll focus you with their CC, and then you're still alive. Even better if you have other people on the team who can actually do damage. It's pretty lame to be front line without any damage in your back line.


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Steven Segal

Senior Member

01-30-2013

with all the items now shes not broken, just get a blade of ruined king to slow them if they run and a qss if they cc you, also a ryalis for fun slows