Please nerf the following OP champions

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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

01-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic View Post
Im glad you basically named all of their abilities.
Majority of these champions aren't op.
Especially Veigar..

Do you realize you can't burst down a tank.. as Veigar.
Veigar's ult only work's effectively on AP champs/items.
His area stun is not op , just don't walk into the walls.
His passive is fine, I mean he can't do much.
Veigar is a hard champ to play, but easy burst on people who don't counter.
Oh, and I'm just going to leave this here:
<math>
TLDR: Veigar CAN burst a tank down. A seriously built tank can probably escape with 10-15% health left, but if the are underfarmed or mixing their build, they're not going to survive.


This is a horrible comparison.
First off, I run 8% + 8 pen for runes and masteries. The extra 5 pen from quints isn't worth nearly as much as flat AP runes are during the VERY important early game. I also run MR for my glyphs because 9 times out of 10, its AP vs AP mid lane.
Next up, not every caster gets Liandry's. Even Haunting Guise is a pretty expensive way to get 10 pen. And Abyssal? Many casters won't even be in range for it when they nuke you. And if their team's tank has it, its *still* not guaranteed to be affecting you. If you always get hit by it, learn better positioning. Unless YOU are a tank. In which case, this argument is flawed already because you should have better than 130 MR by late game.

More realistic:

We'll go with the 20 reduction, but rationalize that by saying Abyssal, OR any number of other champ effects that cause MR reduction.
Then 35% penetration, and 8% penetration, for a net pen of 40.2% penetration.
Finally, 15 pen from boots and 8 more from runes.

If you're a tank, you should be building Bulwark plus another MR item worth at least 40 (40-50 is most tanky MR items). Now, since we're assuming casters have pen runes and masteries, lets assume you have scaling MR glyphs (24.3 MR: you're jungling, support, or top, you don't need MR early game), and 6 MR from defense masteries.

That's a total MR of at LEAST 160.
160, 20 reduction = 140
140, 40.2% pen = 83.7
83.7, 23 pen = 60.7 MR
You're left with 37.5% damage reduction. Now, any decent tanky char will have 2.6k hp (around 2000 before gear), hopefully around 3000.
With 2600 HP and a 37.5% reduction, that's 4160 ehp.

Now, lets look at a typical build on Veigar, one of the highest burst characters in the game.
We'll give him 100 charges off his Q (I usually end games at 150 or so). Deathcap for sure. Throw in Deathfire, Pen Boots, and Void Staff. Thats pretty spendy so far, and leaves him completely squishy. But we'll add in Lichbane too just to prove the point.
With my runepage and masteries, I start with 39 AP and get 17 more by level 18. 100 from Q, and 370 from gear. That's 526 AP, plus 5% from masteries and 25% from the deathcap. So 684 AP.
Masteries mean that his auto attacks do an extra 5% of that, so +34 damage.

With 684 AP, Veigar will be doing:
Stun, 0 damage, trigger LB
DFG, 15% max hp (based on 2600) is 390 damage, plus 2% mastery = 398 ehp damage
Auto-attack, 95 base damage +2% mastery = is 97 ehp damage
LB proc plus 5% ap mastery = 718 magic damage, plus 22% dfg+mastery= 876 ehp damage
Cast dark matter, 0 damage
Cast primordial burst, 500 base damage plus 821 damage from AP, plus 22% dfg+mastery = 1612 ehp damage.
Total of 2983 ehp damage out of 4160, leaving the tank low enough for executioner mastery.
Cast Q, 260 base damage plus 410 from AP, plus 27% dfg+mastery = 851 ehp damage.
Dark matter lands, doing 320 base plus 684 from AP, plus 27% dfg+mastery = 1275 ehp damage.
Total damage done of 5109 ehp of damage, or 1000 overkill.

Now, this is taking a tank with only 2600 health, non-scaling MR, against an end-game geared Veigar, one of the highest burst damage casters in the game, with a 100% glass cannon build.

And the result is that a generic 160 MR tank can be one-shot. But, you know what?
If that Veigar is on the other team, here is how you don't get one-shot.

1) wards
2) stun him
3) let your team sneeze

Realistically, almost every tanky champion has scaling MR (good for another 20+ MR by level 18), and the enemy AP mid will have less burst than a Veigar, and unless your team sucks, will be forced to buy at least one item that provides health for survival or armor/MR.

So, Realistically, 2 MR items is PLENTY to live through the highest burst in the game.
Also, if you're a tank and soak up 100% of the enemy ap's burst, your team just won the team fight because you have 4 characters with more damage than you that got ignored.

For reference, this Veigar has about 150 Cs (2/3 of which were Q lasthits), and a build worth 12595 gold.
And the tank is assumed to have boots 2 plus 5700g of items (banshees + runic), and was even figured using 5 MR less than that provides. That's about 6800g of gear, or 10k about if you assume they also got another armor-no-hp item.

And, if the tank actually built Visage, Randuins, and Bulwark, they would actually have 500 hp and 10 MR more than figured in my math.


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AreallyFATguy

Senior Member

01-19-2013

Tought was a troll, leaved laughing hard


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Spikedroguemaxed

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Vi - Stalls entire games as people argue how to pronounce her name, and then carries her team no matter how bad they are because she's so tanky.

need nerf now


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

01-20-2013

100 upvotes. Thanks community. Worth the time it took! Back to the grindstone for me, now.


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TheXthDoctor

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Omg, it does damage, nerf it.


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Zorande

Junior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viro Melchior View Post
Viktor - Huge range harass, with great damage, and strong cc. Plus, like Renekton, he gets an item that NOBODY ELSE can buy. Such a cheater.
.
I believe you mean Rengar good sir. and keep up the good work! As a man who plays quite a bit of Armor of the fifth age Taric, I can not TELL you how many homophobes i have PERSONALLY demolished, simply because they couldn't handle the fabulousity that is the gems.
^_^ good luck, have fun, and be FABULOUS in all your games!


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Agent6699

Member

01-27-2013

Bahaha


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Foxley

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Just CC them.


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xTheft

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Maybe all these are not op and just a few champions are underpowered. Some of these I agree with but I do not understand Graves. Also Skarner's Ultimate is not overpowered. It only lasts a very short amount of time. Just remember don't go near a turret with Skarner around. And if he does u could always use flash or any other skill that gets u places faster. Also tanks such as Malphite can absorb that turret damage no sweat.


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Scythas

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxley View Post
Just CC them.
CC is OP