DO you think this champion concept could be brought to life?

Yes. 64 73.56%
Possibly. 13 14.94%
No. 10 11.49%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

[Champion Concept] Sylvia - The Broken Mind

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StickyFingers51

Junior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDivineSilence View Post
No, this is my first champion concept. Only one other in mind, but I am not going to bother with him right now.
What?! Mate, if you can make this **** at "level 1" then I cant wait until you become more experienced!


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TheDivineSilence

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Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by StickyFingers51 View Post
What?! Mate, if you can make this **** at "level 1" then I cant wait until you become more experienced!
Wow. Ha.. Quite a flattering compliment. Thank you.


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TheDivineSilence

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicGU4RDI4N View Post
here it is, the newly updated champion with a poll.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3034201
Let's try not to spam a lot of needless posts, and keep it related to this champion concept please.


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Nysta

Senior Member

01-23-2013

I'll review this champion in pieces, going through all of what you have written in chronological order. I will occasionally post the unfinished review. You will see when it reached the end of your Concept. I will then reply to any answers to this should there be things that we don't agree upon.

Review:

Lore: Sylvia is a little girl who had always had some power over the winds (magic). One day her parents decided to travel through a forest, but they were attacked by wild animals. She could not protect them and when the monsters turned on her her mind split into two. Her other side, Syl, was pretty much the opposite of her. She slayed the monsters easily.

Being schizophrenic from that moment on, she sometimes acted on command of Syl and sometimes on command of Sylvia. They shared one body, so they had to get along with each other. Therefor Syl took the role of protecting her weaker self even though they were very different and didn't like each other.

They tried to find a way out of the forest at first, but after some years had passed, they settled down. They had become a part of the wilderness. But some day, they felt some surge drawing them towards some place outside of the forest. Sylvia didn't want to go, but after all Syl won the fight and they went to the League of Legends to await their judgement!

At least that's how I understood it, it seems pretty cool to me.

Basic Attacks:

I got no problem with this but mostly melee fighters are 125-175 range, the only thing with 225 is Riven with her ult active if I'm not totally wrong. Weird, but okay.

Basic Stats:

Totally fine for the ranged part, but I'd increase her movement-speed in her close-ranged form by a bit, similar to Nidalee's. Took a look at her ultimate at this point, and I'd increase her base armor by a bit more than that. ~Misunderstood it, I would just generally add some armor to the close ranged form, doesn't have anything do to with where you put your points into!~

Passive:

Every enemy Champion around her gets weakened, and every ally gets buffed.

Is the buffed stats split between allies or applied equally towards all of them (as in, does it get weaker the more allies are affected or not - it does, read the description now)? Anyways, I guess this ability is surely a good ability and support jumping into the fray. Aura's are usually pretty strong, but it seems about balanced.

Sylvia:

Q:

This is basically a reverse Morgana Shield on a lower cooldown with lower effect. Seeing that it will not protect you from spells though, I think you can heighten the Ap-ratio (Morgana's is 0.7). I would also recommend including a cooldown scaling just so that it is worth to put points into this ability. We don't want it to be obvious which skill to max last, do we?
The evolved bonus seems pretty cool and strong.

W:

I'll compare this to Soraka: 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 (+ 60% AP), 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 seconds Silence, no cost. You chose lower scalings and a weaker silence no matter which way you spec (it is on par if you specifically max it), I'll see into why when I get to read the rest of her kit, but I do think there's room for more here, too.

E:

You definitely have too much range onto this. I mean push-back range. Compare it to Jayce: 240 units, single target; Vayne: 470 units, single target. The only comparable thing would be a Janna-Ult: 875 units. Anyways, considering the 25 second cd it should be fine. Sorry, didn't see that.

R:

This skill does appear in both parts, but I will mention it here already. So you basically have two different options to level up this skill. Anyways, if you want this to carry some stats besides of what it does carry anyways, I would suggest to make those more significant. Other than that, I'd say the most significant changes are what happens to the abilities.
With that reasoning being made, I'd either buff the stats to 6/12/18 armor and magic resist and 6/12/18 attack damage and 9/18/27 ability power or just flat out remove them. Buffing them seems more appropriate though, seeing that it will otherwise give you pretty one-sided strengths and make the second form rather bad to use.
A better solution however might be that you add a scaling effect on both abilities no matter what you skill into, or just to add the effect of this ability when using the other stance. And of course buff them further due to that. I would also suggest to put this ability first, no matter how it is usually handled, seeing that it is so basic to understand this champion. It looks a bit weird, too, to see it listed as the last ability and without caption (compared to those 2x3 sets). You did well at telling us to read it first, but I don't see a reason on why we'd have to jump from post to post to do that.

Q:

This seems to be a low cooldown low cost low damage high range harass. I chose two other champions abilities to compare this to. Kog'Maw, Elise and Karthus. I couldn't think of anything similar other than that.
The problem with this ability is that it's level one costs are really low while it basically does nothing at all. I mean, okay about 40 damage. That's not enough though. You want that damage to be about 70 flat and then add the scalings on top of that. Due to it scaling with Ad, you will have to substract a bit off of it, so that you get a level one damage of 55 with the same scalings. Next I'd lower the cooldown seeing that the spell will get strong later one because it will slow targets, but be weak early on. To maybe 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 seconds. I'd also increase the scalings to 0.3Ad and 0.6 Ap.

The slow seems to be fine, it's pretty low but it will do it's job. Adding a small AOE on the last rank seems appropriate, seeing you'd have to put all of your points into one side of her ultimate to get that. This is another reason why I'd make mixtures more interesting though. By either adding stats to the other form, or buffing their effects as well. Added some more info concerning this spell below the E-Spell.

W:

Bonus Tenacity, sure it's hard to keep her under control right?

Active: You go into some kind of frenzy and well.. deal bonus damage at a higher attack-speed for some time. I think this is an incredibly strong burst ability, and as such, I would buff her Ap-scaling to at least 0.15AP. Given the attack-speed buff I don't think there's a real reason to further improve her attack-damage. It might seem really strong, in fact it is really strong, but it needs her to be close and it has a rather long cooldown paired with a rather low duration. So you might want to buff this one as well.
About the enhancement: Is this working a bit like Shyvana's Q in dragon form? Dealing damage in a cone in front of you? Or is it just in a line up to your target? This might change a lot seeing that she has high range at later ranks. The last step of the enhancement is pretty strong. That's fine though.

E:

High damage. This is basically a bit like a Cho'Gath rupture that is more effective when landed directly. Or Heimerdinger's Q (It is his Q, isn't it?). Seems to be fine over-all.
I have some questions about the 'Can now be used to move' part. Does it mean that it moves like Viktor's ultimate? It seems to be rather slow, but this would make it be a bit like a Wukong-Ultimate just that it is slower deals more damage (?) and slows enemies hit?
This seems too strong to me. I didn't quite know what to compare this to, so I chose Morgana's W. This means that the damage over time is applied faster than it is for Morgana and that it deals more damage over all (1.75Ap opposed to Moragan's 1Ap). Noting that she does in fact not have an ultimate, and that this cooldown is pretty high once again, I'd say this is okay, but I would make it deal 10% less damage per tick and change the scalings to 0.3 Ap every half second. This would leave the total damage at 1.7 Ap max.


Over all I am missing some gap closers of any kind in this part of her kit. She is still some kind of mage, but she needs to come closer than a usual mage. Sure, she has slows, but imagine the Q would speed her up instead. It would fit her character as well, kind of licking blood and wanting more. Jumping a target seems cool to me, but it's not very mage-like. This is the crazy form, right? If there is a sane one, it is definitely not this one.

I like the concept of how she looks and acts and so on. I won't further comment on that, what could I possibly contribute to it?

The only thing that I doubt happen is the "Riot's attention"-part. I wish they would care more about these concepts, I think they do have a look into them, and I think they never take any of those concepts just the way it is. They do only look at them and get some inspiration for their own champions. This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your champion, even though they got the initial idea from it. So.. well. Bit sad, but I wouldn't stop hoping. They should have realized that some concepts are probably better than some their actual champions!

Guess that's it. No need to hold back anymore.


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TheDivineSilence

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

There are a lot of valid points here that I like and would like to talk about. But I'll hold off on my official response until you are finished. Thank you for your input.


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FrackinFrack

Junior Member

01-23-2013

whoa someone has a lot to say they must know what they are doing lol


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Nysta

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Okay, just so you see it, I have now finished my initial post! I do my reviews in that order because that gives you some ideas about things that you might want to change. That is because you will normally be reading it in that order, and when writing it you might not stumble upon mistakes that are no mistakes but just things that are explained later on. You might also make use of my mistakes one I misinterpreted one of your abilities that way.

~Nysta

-edit-

Are you talking about me Frack?


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TheDivineSilence

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nysta View Post
Basic Attacks:

I got no problem with this but mostly melee fighters are 125-175 range, the only thing with 225 is Riven with her ult active if I'm not totally wrong. Weird, but okay.
This is good to know. Her range will be brought down a bit which will shift Syl's power in her W, but I will get to that later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nysta View Post
W:

I'll compare this to Soraka: 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 (+ 60% AP), 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 / 2.25 / 2.5 seconds Silence, no cost. You chose lower scalings and a weaker silence no matter which way you spec (it is on par if you specifically max it), I'll see into why when I get to read the rest of her kit, but I do think there's room for more here, too.
I keep it lower because if all points from her ultimate are given to Sylvia, then this will do double damage. The lower AP ratio will make the damages on these skills very similar. Moreover, there are grievous wounds and a brief immobilize.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nysta View Post
R:

I'd either buff the stats to 6/12/18 armor and magic resist and 6/12/18 attack damage and 9/18/27 ability power or just flat out remove them. Buffing them seems more appropriate though, seeing that it will otherwise give you pretty one-sided strengths and make the second form rather bad to use.
This part specifically hit me. You may be right, the minor buffs that you get when adding them are... Well, minor. I will think about whether to buff this a little or remove it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Nysta View Post
W:

Bonus Tenacity, sure it's hard to keep her under control right?

Active: You go into some kind of frenzy and well.. deal bonus damage at a higher attack-speed for some time. I think this is an incredibly strong burst ability, and as such, I would buff her Ap-scaling to at least 0.15AP. Given the attack-speed buff I don't think there's a real reason to further improve her attack-damage. It might seem really strong, in fact it is really strong, but it needs her to be close and it has a rather long cooldown paired with a rather low duration. So you might want to buff this one as well.
About the enhancement: Is this working a bit like Shyvana's Q in dragon form? Dealing damage in a cone in front of you? Or is it just in a line up to your target? This might change a lot seeing that she has high range at later ranks. The last step of the enhancement is pretty strong. That's fine though.
This is where talk of her new attack range will come in. It will be reduced a little, but I think this is okay. Lack of understanding ranges on my part. Considering Shyvana, I will say yes. These are attacks that swipe against everything in front of her, not just extra range for basic attacks. Multiple enemies can be hit. I did not want the AD or AP ratios to get too high, because at max rank the magic damage becomes true damage. This is basically an AoE true damage ravage and I didn't want it to get TOO out of hand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nysta View Post
Over all I am missing some gap closers of any kind in this part of her kit. She is still some kind of mage, but she needs to come closer than a usual mage. Sure, she has slows, but imagine the Q would speed her up instead. It would fit her character as well, kind of licking blood and wanting more. Jumping a target seems cool to me, but it's not very mage-like. This is the crazy form, right? If there is a sane one, it is definitely not this one.
Originally, I was not worried about the gap closer do to a slow and the stun from her E, but this could be thought about. I may add a brief movement speed buff when she uses this ability.
-
Just to point out-- "Jumping a target seems cool to me, but it's not very mage-like." I considered this back at her original concept because Syl does magic damage but she is not exactly a mage. She has grown in the forest and become more animalistic. It seems like it would fit with her, but that is just my opinion.


Any other thing that I did not reply to, does not mean I didn't look at it. Believe me, I love this kind of criticism, so I have taken things into account. I just didn't have much to say in return. Thank you very much for all of your input. It is much appreciated. I will take tonight and do a bit of tweaking to numerous things.


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TheDivineSilence

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nysta View Post
E:

High damage. This is basically a bit like a Cho'Gath rupture that is more effective when landed directly. Or Heimerdinger's Q (It is his Q, isn't it?). Seems to be fine over-all.
I have some questions about the 'Can now be used to move' part. Does it mean that it moves like Viktor's ultimate? It seems to be rather slow, but this would make it be a bit like a Wukong-Ultimate just that it is slower deals more damage (?) and slows enemies hit?
This seems too strong to me. I didn't quite know what to compare this to, so I chose Morgana's W. This means that the damage over time is applied faster than it is for Morgana and that it deals more damage over all (1.75Ap opposed to Moragan's 1Ap). Noting that she does in fact not have an ultimate, and that this cooldown is pretty high once again, I'd say this is okay, but I would make it deal 10% less damage per tick and change the scalings to 0.3 Ap every half second. This would leave the total damage at 1.7 Ap max.
First: I was going to have this able to be cast in a direction. It isn't like a pet that you can command around. But I thought about it and just said "...but why?" Haha.. So I have removed this. It seems rather unnecessary.

Second: You say near the end "0.3 AP every half second." This ability does damage plus .5 of AP per second. So every half second would be .25 (even less than your suggestion) right..?


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Nysta

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Well yea, it could fit her by a bit^^ I'd definitely do something about the Q. I think it would be more fitting to just have her move faster, maybe also ascend into the air after having hit someone, making her ignore collision for two seconds in which she moves faster or something like that.

Anyways, I see you posted the "I'd either buff the stats to 6/12/18 armor and magic resist and 6/12/18 attack damage and 9/18/27 ability power or just flat out remove them. Buffing them seems more appropriate though, seeing that it will otherwise give you pretty one-sided strengths and make the second form rather bad to use." Which is kind of outdated in the previous post already.

I do specifically comment on this, because there is one thing that you would do with the ultimate as it currently is: You would have her chose to play either as Sylvia or as Syl, and basically make her a 3-skill champion instead of a 6 skill champion because of that. This would be pretty sad, wouldn't it?
This is why I suggested her ultimate to specifically add stats to the other side of herself if not additional (different) effects to the abilities. Also, I'd recommend not having the last skills scale all that much to encourage making a mixture out of Syl and Sylvia. As of now, it seems that the first point decides what you're going to spec into, seeing you want that last point. You could inhibit this by simply (if you chose the stat bonus stuff) removing the 3rd step on scaling (as in gains 12/24/24 armor and mr or gains 12/24/24 ad and 18/36/36 ap as long as she is in her other state). This is even logical, seeing that even though that part of the mind is active and does mainly do its thing, the other part of her is more spread inside of her and gives her those bonus stats. You could then chose to specialize on one of the sets, or just make a mixture. Otherwise I do not only see a loss upon ways on how to skill this spell, but also in all of her other abilities.

Hope this made you get the reasoning behind my concept concerning changes to the ultimate.

Quote:
Second: You say near the end "0.3 AP every half second." This ability does damage plus .5 of AP per second. So every half second would be .25 (even less than your suggestion) right..?
Yes, but I think it won't be all that big, will it? So people will basically take most of the damage in the first few seconds, also it decays to the sides of it. Seems to be more appropriate to buff it. Also, the reason for having it deal damage every half second is that you don't have full seconds in duration most of the time. I guess saying it deals damage per second is fine, too^^ Just feels more appropriate to give half seconds seeing the duration is half second sometimes.