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Lower elo and the obsession with S2 meta

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Gimpyloser

Senior Member

01-19-2013

I've noticed playing many games in Season 3 at a range of 900 - 1300 elo that many players seem obsessed with the Season 2 meta of 1 top, AP mid, true support with ADC bot, and a jungle. Players will often rage out of control, dodge, or intentionally throw the game if a team goes against this meta. Much has changed in Season 3 and the traditional meta is not always the best way to go.Here are a few very viable examples of how going against the meta in various ways can be very effective and the changes which lead to it.

1. 2 bruisers top lane with no jungle. In season 2 starting boots was almost a must for all champs. Typically it was a boot/3 pot start. This meant top lane did not usually start with a ward, now various other starts are more commonly used as boots and movement speed in general are very weak. In Season 3 armor and MR from the defence tree took a substantial hit. 2 bruisers top can seriously bully virtually anyone out of lane while having ward coverage for protection. This forces the jungler out of his jungle and into lane, but more often times, it just wastes his time as he attempts to gank from warded bushes. He could choose to free farm both jungles, but with the increase in difficulty in
S3 and his top lane being shut down super hard, this is not really viable either in most cases.

2. No true support. Typically at low elo, support is a very soft target and little more than a ward monkey, allowing for the adc to get all the kills, cs, and relying on GP/10 and assists for gold. I have found that a support getting what player kills he can and picking up a small amount of cs for himself while building more tanky and/or dps can be very effective, especially on champions like Blitz, Alistar, and Nunu. Of course we all know wards win games so naturally the burden of warding is spread throughout the team as it should be anyway. Many players feel as though it is only the supports job to ward and buying 1-2 wards will significantly set them back on their builds. Not true.

3. No AP/ Full AD team. In season 2 this was a pretty big nono. The defense masteries were stronger, armor in general was just better, and aside from a last whisper on the adc and the occasional brutilizer, very little armor penetration was used. In S2 it was very easy to counter a full AD team. However, in S3 this changed significantly, in large part because of the black cleaver which shreds armor not just for the ADC like a last whisper, but for the whole team. We also see brutilizer being built on many bruisers due to the changes made, and armor in general got nerfed in S3. All these combined make it very difficult to counter a full AD team without building huge amounts of defense and signifcantly hurting your offensive power.

There are other antimeta comps which are extremely viable in Season 3 that I will not go into in this post. I just wanted to point out a few and explain the reasoning behind them. I encourage everyone to experiment with different comps and not rush judgement during champion selection. Of course with any composition, the skill level of the players using it will ultimately determine it's effectiveness, so if it doesn't work for you in a particular game, don't assume it is because it isn't viable. The more likely reasoning is that the enemy team outplayed your team.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

01-19-2013

You say "s2 meta" as if there's been some drastic change. Junglers are still beating duo top on a regular basis.

And just because someone can't play a good support doesn't mean that a true support still wouldn't be effective in your Elo range.


The only point I really agree with you on is your third point. The change to penetration means that at least for right now it's less important to have a good mix of damage types--especially at lower Elos where everyone just follows a cookie cutter build and doesn't tailor their build for the team they're going against.


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Gimpyloser

Senior Member

01-19-2013

Quote:
PogoPogoPogoPogo:
You say "s2 meta" as if there's been some drastic change. Junglers are still beating duo top on a regular basis.

And just because someone can't play a good support doesn't mean that a true support still wouldn't be effective in your Elo range.


The only point I really agree with you on is your third point. The change to penetration means that at least for right now it's less important to have a good mix of damage types--especially at lower Elos where everyone just follows a cookie cutter build and doesn't tailor their build for the team they're going against.


There have been drastic changes from S2 - S3. Jungle, masteries, item changes, item removal, and new item introduction. Also, I never claimed that the season 2 meta is now obsolete. Having a jungler is still good and having a true support is still good. I just pointed out and explained why other compositions are viable and very effective.


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Flagrock

Senior Member

01-19-2013

Yes, while you're running your duo top I'm going to be taking out mid and bot feeding the carries and having your team start to rage hard. Now, you try to stack AD or AP guess what? HP and armor come a lot cheaper and better now and HP and MR got a huge buff together. Yes, go pick those single damage teams and I'll just grab Rammus or Malph for Anti-AD and Galio for anti AP and laugh as you do no dmg and lose the game.

What you're saying is only viable is if people don't understand how to beat it. You can send double bruisers top to be a kill lane and it be "viable" against pubstomping but that doesn't mean it will work all the time because it's really easy to stop. The "meta" is the meta because that is the optimal way to play at a certain level. The pro meta is different than the Ranked meta at 1200-1300 ELO. Btw, supports provide the cc to keep that AD carry alive so yeah, I'd take a support being a "ward monkey" who will actually grab aura items and still be effective over a champ who will just suck because they didn't get enough of a build and have to buy wards.


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XSeastarX

Junior Member

01-19-2013

ADC and support mid to push the tower quickly work well too. Also lane switches putting ADC against solo lanes are often used in tournament play.


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Gimpyloser

Senior Member

01-19-2013

Quote:
Flagrock:
Yes, while you're running your duo top I'm going to be taking out mid and bot feeding the carries and having your team start to rage hard. Now, you try to stack AD or AP guess what? HP and armor come a lot cheaper and better now and HP and MR got a huge buff together. Yes, go pick those single damage teams and I'll just grab Rammus or Malph for Anti-AD and Galio for anti AP and laugh as you do no dmg and lose the game.

What you're saying is only viable is if people don't understand how to beat it. You can send double bruisers top to be a kill lane and it be "viable" against pubstomping but that doesn't mean it will work all the time because it's really easy to stop. The "meta" is the meta because that is the optimal way to play at a certain level. The pro meta is different than the Ranked meta at 1200-1300 ELO. Btw, supports provide the cc to keep that AD carry alive so yeah, I'd take a support being a "ward monkey" who will actually grab aura items and still be effective over a champ who will just suck because they didn't get enough of a build and have to buy wards.


I never claimed it could not be countered. Of course other factors must be taken into consideration such as the enemy team composition. A Malphite top lane, with fast clear, strong ganking jungle like Nocturne can indeed counter two bruisers top by doing as you describe. Of course Malphite might as well not exist at the lower elos as he is almost garunteed to be banned. More often than not you'll see Darius, Wukong, Olaf, etc top lane solo, and if the jungle doesn't respond to help him and instead ganks mid/bot repeatedly, that turret will go down very quickly, allowing for one bruiser to roam or even smiteless jungle because he is likely atleast level 4. Now you have a solo top lane against a solo top lane, but your team has turret advantage and enemy top lane is significantly denied. Freeze the lane and farm while forcing him to overextend for farm or share jungle. You are also assuming that you'll know that two bruisers are going top lane during champion selection. In some cases maybe. In others you will assume one of them is jungling, i.e Olaf, Xin combo.

I thought I made it clear in the 2 previous posts that going against the meta was viable, not a garunteed win and other factors play a role, such as player skill and enemy team composition. To argue that just because it can be countered it is not viable is not only a straw man argument, but incorrect. Anything can be countered in LOL. That doesn't mean that the 3 examples I listed are not viable if executed correctly and under the right circumstances. Circumstances which exists in most ranked games at lower elo.


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Gimpyloser

Senior Member

01-19-2013

It seems based on the comments to my OP, that people are misunderstanding the intent. I thought I made it clear in the opening paragraph, but let me clarify. The Season 2 meta is still good. It still works. Going against the meta does not work in every situation. Sometimes sticking to the traditional team composition will work better. My point is that people should not be so quick to rage out of control during champion selection if the team does not conform to this meta. There are other very viable and effective comps, 3 of which I listed here with a breif description of why they may work. Once again, that does not mean that they are the new meta, that they will always work, or that they have no counters...


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