Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Shyvana's State in Season 3

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Paaske Da Bes

Senior Member

01-25-2013

@Cevonis
She is viable top if you play around her strengths. (I mainly played her top in s3) You can win against sample teemo and nidalee by playing smart (and in teemo's case all in him as soon as you hit 6.). Jax by snowballing pre 6 (You always got 1-2 sec stronger trades than jax with E + AA + Q combo) and baiting out the stun. You should win every trade with darius pre 6. He won't ever have a chance 1v1 against you if you get ahead pre 6. Just to name some.

Just once you come to teamfight phase (assuming equal in gold regardless of jungle or top) isn't really good cause you're not tanky enough to go in the middle of everything atleast alone. So you can either peel for your carry or hit the front line, or obv dive in with someone else. I kinda normally use when I play bruiser shyvana wait for someone else to force the carries escape before following in with R to clean up.

The thing is, if you compare to most other bruiser/tanks top, they bring CC. Does Shyvana's natural aoe damage make up for it? I'd say it's not possible to utilize well. Regarding damage/duel power there's better options (Vi (you got to be almost glass canon to duel her as shyvana with equal gold -.-), jax) while bringing more CC / utility. As I said earlier shyvana scales high with damage items but her scaling per level on her abilities ain't that high. Making her rather item dependent for damage (outside W's aoe damage). Also you can't reach the top dps for bruisers even with items. More info on that on previous posts. Cough team comps (amumu malph orianna to name a few)

TLDR: Bruiser/tank who is not tanky enough to utilize aoe nor deals enough damage for the lack of teamfight mobility (no dash outside ult). That's my oppinion. Still able to be played top through, just not popular as well and kinda depending on snowballing against the strongest bruisers.

Why does the only reply with upvote in a long time actually getting upvote for being sarcastic (a note, I kinda noticed that all the post that gets red replies lies in general forum, a coincidence?)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

copperpoint

Senior Member

01-25-2013

I play her a lot in 3vs3. And to at least there she can do a pretty good job.

Like Paaske sayd, she doesnt really make up for what she cant do.
She should be slightly better in lane in some way and in the jungle too.
She should get some kind of modification to survive a dive in some way. The def bonus is by far not enough for that.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

OmeQuicksilver

Senior Member

01-25-2013

I love Shyvana, she was one of the first champs I bought on my EU account, and one of only 3 melee champs I liked enough to buy (the others being Jax and Skarner). She was fun and quickly became my main....and then season 3 rolled along. And I noticed that while she didn't just start sucking to uselessness like Evelynn used to...she wasn't really good anymore either. Jungling became MUCH harder. Her lack of CC or reliable gap closer outside her ult started hurting alot more. And none of the new items really synergize with her at all for the most part. It quickly became apparent that yeah, she wasn't unplayably bad....but she wasn't very useful anymore, alot of champs could do everything you used to be able to do as her, alot better, and often alot sooner. I'm generally happy to come up with a 1:1 ratio as her now. She doesn't need a hard remake, she just needs a big enough one to work in season 3...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Martyrofsand

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
copperpoint:
@SacredMesa: So either you are lucky with her or have some kind of trick we others dont know yet. If you could be a little more specific pls. What games, which position, runes, skills, items, general playstile....





FML I just wrote a pretty lengthy description just to have my damn web browser close on me >.<


/sigh


There is really nothing special to how I build or play shyvana.

Masteries are 21/9/0, taking Summoners Resolve, Tough Skin, Bladed Armor, Hardiness and 2/3 Perserverance. I run Smite/Exhaust and also take Summoner's Wrath in the offensive tree. Also in the offensive tree I take, Fury, Deadliness, Weapon Expertise, Havoc, Brute Force, Sunder, and Executioner.

For runes I run...

Atk speed reds
Flat Armor yellow
Scaling MR blues
Move Speed quints

I start wraiths-->red-->wolves-->gank enemy at his red-->my blue for my first trip through the jungle.

I only gank for a few specific reasons..

1--Enemy massively overextended and I know I can get the kill
2--Counter ganking
3--Tower diving
4--Massive mismatch forces me to camp

In the event of 4 I normally only farm half of the jungle, so if top is countered and I am purple team I will sit in the red side of my jungle and take the enemy blue and wolves to keep my farm up. In a situation like that I often don't go bot unless it involves dragon or I managed to snowball top enough they can't lose.

Aside from that i focus heavily on counter jungling, warding and counter warding. Every trip back until I get a sightstone I will buy at least 2 wards, and often a pink for dragon. I ward enemy wraiths and blue buff, and if I had more I'll ward for lanes as well. I also frequently buy oracles as with Shyvana's ability to move around the map quickly allows her to dominate map control better than damn near every other jungle in the game.

I build Merc treads/Tabi-->Wriggles-->Sightstone-->Phage-->Witz End-->Frozen Mallet-->Randuins Omen-->Sell sightstone for Guardian Angle-->Sell Wriggles for Ravenious Hydra.

Normally my games end around the time I have phage+some part of my witz end.

At around 15 minutes I don't take my buffs anymore at all. The 2nd blue goes to mid and 3rd red goes to bot, unless on purple then I'll give it to top unless it's an AP like Singed/Kennen/Vlad/etc. At that point if I have a buff it's becuase I got it from the enemy jungle, which frankly I often have them. I counter jungle hard enough that usually the opposing jungle is 2-4 levels behind me and around 30-40ish CS behind me as well. All that combined with the map control I provide they rarely get off effective ganks which makes team fights pretty much 5v4, unless the enemy jungle is someone like Amumu/Naut/etc who are only there for their CC to begin with.

Often times I have been so effective at my counter jungling and counter warding I am able to give my wraiths to mid and my golemns to bot/top depending on if I'm blue/purple. I've had numerious games where the opposing jungle is so starved they are forced to take more lane experience than they should which in turn starts getting his lanes behind.

In team fights I fight like Shyvana normally would I dragon into the middle of the enemy team to innitiate and activate Randuins. Land my breath and go to town on anything squishy.

As I said nothing really special or unique about how I play her, it's all pretty basic.


EDIT because I forgot--I max R-->W-->Q-->E as it gives the most damage and fastest clear time.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

copperpoint

Senior Member

01-26-2013

@Sacred, thanks for rewriting it ^^

What you describe is what she really has to do, to be good. FB helps her a lot as she gets the lantern/ stone way faster.

But often times it goes like this for me:
I go wraith> red> wolf > his red
I can surprise him, but most junglers pick flash and so they have a pretty easy time escaping. So getting FB is a matter of luck. To make it worse in a lot of cases the mid/ toplaner comes to help, while my mates stay in lane for farming.

And evading a fight inst really her strong point.

You are right, she can play well. But she is heavily item dependant, which may be her biggest weakness. If you get thrown off in CJ you have a hard time dueling the enmy jungler, you dont get enough gold and you cant gank to make up for it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Paaske Da Bes

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Generally teammates won't help if they're getting pushed, and will properly cry if you help them push early game (before you take towers).

I normally don't invade unless atleast mid is pushed, depending on entry point.


Also playing shyvana says counterjungling so bot lane might give up an extra ward for the jungler if any good.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Martyrofsand

Senior Member

01-26-2013

Quote:
copperpoint:
@Sacred, thanks for rewriting it ^^

What you describe is what she really has to do, to be good. FB helps her a lot as she gets the lantern/ stone way faster.

But often times it goes like this for me:
I go wraith> red> wolf > his red
I can surprise him, but most junglers pick flash and so they have a pretty easy time escaping. So getting FB is a matter of luck. To make it worse in a lot of cases the mid/ toplaner comes to help, while my mates stay in lane for farming.

And evading a fight inst really her strong point.

You are right, she can play well. But she is heavily item dependant, which may be her biggest weakness. If you get thrown off in CJ you have a hard time dueling the enmy jungler, you dont get enough gold and you cant gank to make up for it.








I often dont get first blood at the enemy red, that isnt what it is about. I time it right so I can both steal the red while forcing them out of the jungle early. Done right this will give you 3 buff camps to their 1 at the start of the game which is a huge lead that you can and should exploit.

Also dont ever chase with shyvana it isnt worth it. If you force flash great they wont be coming for you before you clear the camp and get out.

In terms of lanes helping I generally play with premades I know very well so help in the jungle is something I get pretty often and often times that ends up being the primary battlefield during the laning phase. Frankly shyvana forcing early game fights in the jungle is amazing as no one really competes with her early game damage and since most dont have an exhaust that only furthers our advantage even more.

EDIT--The only thing about shyvana is that she is kinda one dimensional. She isnt like naut, skarner, amumu , etc who can sit on a gp5 farm their jungle and get a gank or two and still be good. She has to play aggressive and her team needs to be aggressive to match. She isnt a jungler you pick when you have shen top, anivia mid, kog bot with nunu. Normally you want something more like darius/riven top with ahri/leblanc/kha mid with a draven/gravws/ezreal/etc bot. Shyvana in the jungle dictates how your team has to play the game and if they dont have the picks to match that style it can fall apart very quickly.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

copperpoint

Senior Member

01-27-2013

The problem in you statement is what I already mentioned a while ago:
Shyvana is really good with a good team that knows how to work with her. In a random game she is way harder to play. At least thats my feeling.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Martyrofsand

Senior Member

01-27-2013

Quote:
copperpoint:
The problem in you statement is what I already mentioned a while ago:
Shyvana is really good with a good team that knows how to work with her. In a random game she is way harder to play. At least thats my feeling.






This is true but that is no different from a number of champs. Kog'Maw is one that instantly comes to mind. He's amazing when he has a team that knows how to and will protect him. I won't deny that can be a flaw but that type of a flaw doesn't mean a champ needs to be buffed or changed. People just need to understand the champs place and what team comps and playstyles that champ belongs in.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Anachronity

Senior Member

01-27-2013

I've never really been impressed by Shyvana, but I would agree that she's less powerful in S3. Having no gap closers/CC other than her ultimate really limits her, I think. One of my favorite champions is Zilean and I never have trouble shutting her down with slows in a team fight.