Shyvana's State in Season 3

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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-24-2013

You know, I am really glad that she is ftp right now. Maybe that brings some more public attention to her.

One of my 2 favorite champs, Sejuani is already getting her rework. Hopefully the dragonlady gets one too soon.

@Paaske:
I guess you can play her both ways. With offensive items 1st: Botrk, boots, glacial shroud, brutalizer, T2 boots are my general order in 3vs3. But you really need a pal. If you go alone you get shot on your way to the enemy already. If he has a cc effect like Lux you easily loose half your hp without even getting close.

Btw, what runes do you use on her ? Ad only ? Or the ats runes , as you dont want to buy wits end ? In my opinion you need at least 2 HP items on her. Mallet + something else. BC isnt that much, but it helps too. Zekes herald has hp, lifesteal and 15% cdr too. and its a team item.
If you want to go for botrk 1st you could start with the lifesteal part, but then you wont have boots, armor or pots. Im really not used to playing her offensively, how do you adjust your build ?


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Paaske Da Bes

Senior Member

01-24-2013

@Copperpoint

I won't go wits end if I'm only against 1 AP in 5v5. I generally when I play 5v5 and go top against ap rush wits end but not sure how the full build looks then. Lux will always be a problem, but bork will help. Obv in 3v3 you can't buy warmog and I'm not sure on the item to replace it, maybe overlord's blooodmail? I generally finish atleast my "warmog" and glacial shroud before building more damage items on shyvana, unless I know I'm far enough ahead. I'm not sure how to get mr into my build, was thinking in the likes of a "botrk, bc, iceborn gauntlet, warmog, spirit visage" or pehaps gutting bc for Wits end even. It's just not a good build against bruisers through, and I don't like iceborn on shy, unfortunately.

I got no idea about how strong that item is through. I do go 15% attack speed marks to compensate a bit for the lack of attack speed. It's also stronger for early game all ins.

and you can pick up phage when ever you think you need it after botrk. I last time I played 3v3 (through I got far ahead) I even built a kindle gem just for the intent of never upgrading it. Ended through shortly after. If anything buy locket of the iron solari if you want some more team fight presence, is what I believe. Never tried it but I think it should be good.

Regarding Zeke's herald;
I believe it's only really gonna be useful on shyvana when you're already useless. Due to her natural high scaling I think it would be better on another champ on the team.


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Keitterman

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing her get a buff, but I have a feeling it would be at a cost.

I don't play her much in S3, but just for kicks (since I got stuck as jungler role) I loaded her up last night.

Her counter-jungling is still very strong. A ward at their blue and a ward between wraiths and red means your team knows where their jungler is at all times, and so do you. don't leave a creep at the camps to be all sneaky, if you clear the whole camp, you know when it will be up again. Give yourself a 30 sec lead before it spawns, make sure your team knows to back you up if their lane goes MIA, enjoy easy kills. Shy is still a very tough person to take 1v1, especially if she jumped you.

Lastly, although they polarized the HP of the camps in to the larger creeps, it seems like i got money a lot faster now. I build;
Razor->boots->Lantern->Phage->Swift boots->Frozen mallet->Witt's->Blade of the fallen King->Tiamat (game ended) before i could get hydra and furor enchant.

I got the frozen mallet around lvl 9-ish, and once she has that, the kills just pour in.

kept their jungle warded, wait in the bushes where they go to ward baron or go from top lane to mid, grab a free snack. Repeat often.

last night i decided to do this with boots of swiftness instead of merc treads, ended up going 13-0, had a blast.


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Suaroth

Senior Member

01-24-2013

just make her ap bruiser viable again and I will be happy


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Estred Shantile

Senior Member

01-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suaroth View Post
just make her ap bruiser viable again and I will be happy
Would prefer her hybrid. That seems closer to what she is/was intended. Burnout used to be an AP ratio but they changed it because she wasn't supposed to be an AD or AP bruiser but a source of both damage types.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-24-2013

@Vuther: Nice, I just made a post + link to this thread. Maybe somebody takes a look. ^^
Shyvana needs some changes, because she was well balanced in S2. With the jungle and item changes she got heavily nerfed though, sometimes indirectly by buffing others.. Unintended by Riot I would guess.

@Keitterman: She CAN CJ, so can others and usually those have either a better chance of killing the jungler (cc) or have a better chance of escaping. The problem is that she has to stick even longer to kill the big monster and if she gets bad luck, she is pretty far behind, as she CANT make up for it with a gank (or you just get lucky)

Warding 2 positions at all times ? Would be a good idea to get a sightstone for that.

Topic: - so many options:

Hybrid scaling : an ap part for her W, or an ad part on her E.
Hyper carry - She already plays somewhat like a carry. Maybe shorter CDs and better boni on her R on Lv11/ 16.
Another passive ?
Anti cc effects for a lower death rate and slightly better chase.
Bonus dmg/ gold vs monsters
Removing weak spots on her kit: Fade off on her firespin, animation time on her E + pass through targets like in dragonform, cc on ulti charge, Melee range on ulti
Stats: To make early jungle easier + better counterjungle. Like written once 20 sec faster then lee and nocturn.
Her E ? Maybe there are other things she could do with that. E+Q = stun for teamfight ? Ignite under X HP, negate heal, bonus gold on hit ? On hit effects ?

As what I want: A slightly better job in lane as you can hardly punish any mistakes and cant escape either- for me she was never one of the really good laners. Especially in 3vs3 getting stuck to minions lets so many enemys get away without a scratch.
She should be more of a dominance in the jungle, c.jungling + c.ganking.
And she scales pretty hard into lategame, making her some kind of "off carry". ^^

With her design, the new jungle and items she got weaker in all of those.
To the point where it is more dmg effective to buy a BC for the ruined king item and her Q only, then to search for any other synergy.


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Paaske Da Bes

Senior Member

01-25-2013

Tbh I don't think the haste nurfs was that much for her (the final items she builds haven't even lost attack speed wits end/trinity just a tiny bit more expensive), and you can offset the loss building cdr.

It's more the meta around the jungle. Early jungle wards are more potent from laners or support, making counterjungle more risky. Creeps does more damage making counterjungling more risky as well. Meta is still around gank junglers almost. Jungle gives less gold than s2 last I checked, (if you feel you got more gold it's properly cause you don't build HoG anymore and faster get to the core) and no oracle drive by early game.

Which kinda put her a similar spot to master yi, trynd and fiora jungle except having a bit faster clear time.


Regarding the old items, Q always has been the powerhouse of scaling once you got items.

Regarding current ap scaling is just to give you something extra when you get baron. I don't even see what item would be good if she did hybrid scale.

@Estred Shantile

Lastly hybrid doesn't scale normally well (jax got high base dmg so he just buys mainly for utility, rageblade could be seen as an exception through is really cost efficient) and would mainly increase burnout's damage. Spell vamp is not good on shyvana. Sunfire could cover that.

What item that doesn't bring spell vamp and has AP would you even get on shyvana, just currious. Nashor's tooth?


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Cevonis

Senior Member

01-25-2013

I don't think the nerfs on her was hard enough, lets make her E not shred armor, because it pretty useless and hard to hit half the time minion get in the way.
Lets take away the speed boost on her W because her ganks are worthless anyway.
But i am not heartless so make her Q scale 100% across all levels

On a more serious note some people seem to forget she was made to top lane and use to be a really strong top lane champ. Before S3 i usually destroyed the top lane and carried most of my games most of the rework ideas that i read on this thread (the first 3 pages) wanted to make her jungle focused, i say make her viable for both top lane and jungle again. make her passive do more damage based on rage or bonus attack speed based on a small ratio of AD would make both her jungle and top lane better.


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Suaroth

Senior Member

01-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cevonis View Post
I don't think the nerfs on her was hard enough, lets make her E not shred armor, because it pretty useless and hard to hit half the time minion get in the way.
Lets take away the speed boost on her W because her ganks are worthless anyway.
But i am not heartless so make her Q scale 100% across all levels

On a more serious note some people seem to forget she was made to top lane and use to be a really strong top lane champ. Before S3 i usually destroyed the top lane and carried most of my games most of the rework ideas that i read on this thread (the first 3 pages) wanted to make her jungle focused, i say make her viable for both top lane and jungle again. make her passive do more damage based on rage or bonus attack speed based on a small ratio of AD would make both her jungle and top lane better.
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