Shyvana's State in Season 3

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Vermana

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperpoint View Post
The only thing I found was in a thread about s3 in general (not sure which exactly) where a RED at least admitted that she got "unintentionally nerfed" by the last item and jungle changes.
Let's hope that means they intend to fix what they screwed up. Shyvana is a great Champ, I would hate to see her be forgotten.


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ERJAK

Junior Member

01-29-2013

There was one Q&A with one of the Devs where someone apparently just asked "Shyvana", and the dev responded that the nerf to attack speed plus the new jungle hit her hard and that they probably need to look at her.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-30-2013

up again to be seen


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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Up once more.

Maybe we should start a thread in the general part. Thats where the reds post was more often. ^^


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Renanthera

Recruiter

01-31-2013

This thread cannot be forgotten! Long live the Half-Dragon!


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RockJockey

Senior Member

01-31-2013

I understand that shyvana's core items have all been nerfed. I believe they were Frozen Mallet, Wit's End, and Atma's Impaler. Either its been through cost or a lowering of stats. I'm assuming people are playing a tanky Shyvana.

I've been playing Shyvana since Season 2 when she came out, but only recently started playing her again since seeing these threads. A good idea I picked up from another thread was that with the Season 3 Item overhaul, we need to change how we build Shyvana.

To be able to do this, we have to understand her basic kit. These are generalizations.
Passive: Some Attack Speed is essential. And in Dragon form, all abilities become AoE.
Q. Twin Bite: Scales with AD and on hit effects
W. Burnout: Scales with AD, but does MAGIC DAMAGE
E. Flame Breath: Scales with AP
R: Dragon's Descent: Scales with AP

What can we determine from this? Shyvana is a hybrid, an abnormal Hybrid at that. It also means that she has a very flexible build. While I do say she is a Hybrid, I don't suggest you focus on building AP, Shyvana is like Jax in the way that a little AP goes a long way. That also means magic penetration will maximize your damage output. Having said all that, what possible item gives AP, AS and MR shred?

The answer is Malady.

+25 ability power
+45% attack speed
Passive
Unique: Your basic attacks deal 15 + 10% AP bonus magic damage.
Unique: Your basic attacks reduce enemy magic resistance by 4 for 8 seconds (maximum 7 stacks)

This will replace Wit's End as a core item. Since most builds go R<W<Q<E, that means W. Burnout is ranked first, it does AoE MAGIC DAMAGE. Each second an enemy is close enough for you to autoattack them, the worse Burnout is going to hurt. And when it comes to teamfights, every time you Q in dragon form, everyone is going to lose their MR.

Frozen Mallet (or Trinity if you prefer) is essential to keep targets close.

Whether toplane or jungling, an early Wriggles lantern will help with sustain, which can be later sold for Ravenous Hydra. After Malady and Frozen Mallet, the build choice depends on the game.

Good items on Shyvana:
AS: Malady, Trinity Force, Zephyr, Wit's End, Nashor's Tooth, Statikk Shiv.
AD: Frozen Mallet, Black Cleaver, Blood Thirster, Youmoo's Ghostblade
Lifesteal: Ravenous Hydra, BoRK, Hextech Gunblade
MR: Runic Bulwark, Maw of Mallortius, Mercurial Scimitar, Spirit Visage
AR: Sunfire Cape, Randuin's Omen, Spirit of the Ancient Golem
CDR: Nashor's Tooth, Zephyr, Black Cleaver, Ionian Boots of Lucidity

This is a build I put together for a Tank Shyvana. It gives enough survivability and damage to be able to peel.
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/shyva...0&fspells=true

Soviet Swain APproves Shyvana Builds
-Rockjockey

TLDR: Try building Malady early, it will help with your damage output since 3/4th of your abilities deal magic damage.


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ChilenoOwna

Junior Member

01-31-2013

just give him a base hp of 8000 and base attack damage of 400 and she will be viable.


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Renanthera

Recruiter

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockJockey View Post
I understand that shyvana's core items have all been nerfed. I believe they were Frozen Mallet, Wit's End, and Atma's Impaler. Either its been through cost or a lowering of stats. I'm assuming people are playing a tanky Shyvana.

I've been playing Shyvana since Season 2 when she came out, but only recently started playing her again since seeing these threads. A good idea I picked up from another thread was that with the Season 3 Item overhaul, we need to change how we build Shyvana.

To be able to do this, we have to understand her basic kit. These are generalizations.
Passive: Some Attack Speed is essential. And in Dragon form, all abilities become AoE.
Q. Twin Bite: Scales with AD and on hit effects
W. Burnout: Scales with AD, but does MAGIC DAMAGE
E. Flame Breath: Scales with AP
R: Dragon's Descent: Scales with AP

What can we determine from this? Shyvana is a hybrid, an abnormal Hybrid at that. It also means that she has a very flexible build. While I do say she is a Hybrid, I don't suggest you focus on building AP, Shyvana is like Jax in the way that a little AP goes a long way. That also means magic penetration will maximize your damage output. Having said all that, what possible item gives AP, AS and MR shred?

The answer is Malady.

+25 ability power
+45% attack speed
Passive
Unique: Your basic attacks deal 15 + 10% AP bonus magic damage.
Unique: Your basic attacks reduce enemy magic resistance by 4 for 8 seconds (maximum 7 stacks)

This will replace Wit's End as a core item. Since most builds go R<W<Q<E, that means W. Burnout is ranked first, it does AoE MAGIC DAMAGE. Each second an enemy is close enough for you to autoattack them, the worse Burnout is going to hurt. And when it comes to teamfights, every time you Q in dragon form, everyone is going to lose their MR.

Frozen Mallet (or Trinity if you prefer) is essential to keep targets close.

Whether toplane or jungling, an early Wriggles lantern will help with sustain, which can be later sold for Ravenous Hydra. After Malady and Frozen Mallet, the build choice depends on the game.

Good items on Shyvana:
AS: Malady, Trinity Force, Zephyr, Wit's End, Nashor's Tooth, Statikk Shiv.
AD: Frozen Mallet, Black Cleaver, Blood Thirster, Youmoo's Ghostblade
Lifesteal: Ravenous Hydra, BoRK, Hextech Gunblade
MR: Runic Bulwark, Maw of Mallortius, Mercurial Scimitar, Spirit Visage
AR: Sunfire Cape, Randuin's Omen, Spirit of the Ancient Golem
CDR: Nashor's Tooth, Zephyr, Black Cleaver, Ionian Boots of Lucidity

This is a build I put together for a Tank Shyvana. It gives enough survivability and damage to be able to peel.
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/shyva...0&fspells=true

Soviet Swain APproves Shyvana Builds
-Rockjockey

TLDR: Try building Malady early, it will help with your damage output since 3/4th of your abilities deal magic damage.
I'm almost certain that players who actively play and main Shyvana understand this. Damage isn't the crux of the problem though, it's the fact that she doesn't receive the same strong synergy with majority of items (may them be S3 or not) compared to the more popular options.

Items aren't the entire problem either. If they did itemize perfectly, she's lacking the crowd control to make use of it. Sure, you can buy Phage and pray for the procs, but why bother going through all that effort when you can just play someone like Jarvan, Mundo, or Amumu that do what Shyvana wants to so much easier.

What majority of Shyvana players want to do is jungle. She can't counter-jungle effectively with the harder hitting early camps, she can't gank on par with the other junglers to compensate because her lack of CC, and she can't even do decent damage upon the off chance she gets a success initiate because everyone and their mother takes flash or has an escape or punish her more for just coming in.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Though Malady is a nice idea, I am not sure if it really helps her that much as wits end does. Its cheap, increases her dmg and tank stats.
But I will give it a shot, to see what it does.

Another problem with magic pen is the jungle:
Monster dont have magic res, so I am not sure in how far magic pen would actually help us.

AP: increases E/R, both not the big dmg sources
Mpen: Increases dmg of W/E/R. W. So at least one of her 2 main dmg skills gets better. The other one doesnt, only indirectly by ats or that dmg/ap on hit.

@Yellow: Well said.
Currently its obviously really hard to put the finger on what exactly is causing the trouble with her. It really seems to be a build up combinatione of different things, like you mentioned.

Basically you pick a champ because of what he is able to do, the more he can do, the less "must have" items are there, to make up for what he cant do. Shyvana is supposed to be hard to kill and deal a lot of dmg over the entire game, growing to the late game. And beeing a great jungler.
In S2 she was good enough, that you could actually not use boots on her as a start item, as she was fast enough anyways, she doesnt have such an edge anymore.

I dont want to repeat it over and over again.


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Cevonis

Senior Member

02-01-2013

it is just me or does Shyvana's mobility seem... less, like less useful.

this season i feel like you don't really need boots but only get it so you can catch the enemy who has them. it will surly help shyvana if her speed up from burnout didn't decay.