Shyvana's State in Season 3

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Sleepless

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperpoint View Post
Udyr in lane has some crazy sustain + stun. He has a speed and dmg buff too and with the turtle he is really hard to kill.

As I dont play him I cant go into details about him, but he feels really easy in jungle. The last time he was free he felt pretty save. His ganks are rather weak too, as well as his lategame.
Shyv has a speed buff too. Udyr is always getting minion blocked and his speed buff does no damage until you can auto attacked. His tiger does bonus magic damage and again you need to get into range. His turtle got nerfed, and doesn't keep him as tanky as you think. He has fallen out even more than shyv. So... that's udyr for you! Haven't seen him played in anything major for a loong time

His sustain has been nerfed (if you were around for it) and in order to sustain he will probably end up taking more harrass than he sustained.


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Martyrofsand

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperpoint View Post
You may be right on that one.
One reason why tank items are rather good on her, is that they help her regardless of her kit or scalings.

If you asked me, what an ideal item for shyvana would look like... I had no answer.
AD, ats ? some kind of pen ? HP or tank stats ? CD is great on her too. Some good passice/ active on hit or with cc ?




Both witz end and frozen mallet are perfect damage items for her giving her a mix of cc, damage, atk speed, and tankiness. Randuins is a perfect tank item for her giving her armor, health, and aoe cc. She already has perfect items available to her in game people are judt not building them.

Btw shyv really doesnt need cdr like everyone wants to think. Atk speed is her cdr and witz end gives her all that she needs.

EDIT--I really need to stop posting these from my droid.


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Paaske Da Bes

Senior Member

01-28-2013

@SacredMesa
The traditionally jungle shyvana build: boots wiggles frozen mallet wits end randuins omen (properly warmog now) + 1 item (would properly be hydra considering how much people have brought it up) works around wiggles for fast clear speed, Wits end due to being the strongest mr item regarding damage (and obv syncing with her q) randuins for best physical defense, warmog for survival.

This build isn't perfect, cause it doesn't take account her high scaling. It's only high rated cause it's the most impactful build when you're the only tank or you gotta initiate. (specially since you're getting the most usefulness from the least gold)

Ideal items:
Slow: trinity force / Frozen Mallet / Iceborn gauntlet (I personally don't like this item on shyvana but does have good stats on it -mana. It's a bad item for duelling on shyvana so could fit in a full tank build. cdr amazing for it)

Lifesteal: Bloodthirster / Botrk / Wiggles (Zeke's it's not a strong personal item)

Cooldown reduction: Black Cleaver / Frozen Heart / Locket of the iron Solari (cheap and really good in teamfights) / Ghostblade? (Black cleaver is better) / Zephyr (Is a weaker dueling and team item than bc but gives move speed and tenacity) / Spirit of the elder lizard (Never tried it seems good on paper but gotta skip wiggles to get. Should work wonder in a tank build. Aoe true damage pewpew)

Another mention; Liandry's torment / blackfire touch. You can use the passive with W so in heavy tank builds could be considered. Also both have spell pen which is nice if you're going full tank cause you depend on your base damage.

Cooldown reduction ain't an early game stat either, only gets good once you get points in q or get a bit of ad. Also the more cooldown reduction you have, the better it is. Lastly 40% cdr can easily be worth around 80% haste, and is many times better for aoe (tank shyvana)

All of those above in those categories could be considered ideal for shyvana I haven't mentioned anything about. There's obv armor / mr / health / crit, but I don't feel like I have to answer those.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Im not a fan of the gauntlet too as you waste soo much of the stats. Her dmg is being increased though I dont know if it works with her dragon Q or not. "Sheen/Trinity" had the same problem b.t.w. not sure if it was changed at some point.
Thats the reason why I am not such a fan of a trinity on her.

I am familiar with the "classic" build. The problem with that is that you have a rather low dmg output until you reach the REALLY late lategame to finally buy a big dmg item. Hydra, BT or IE (if you want the crit chance), botrk has more impact when bought earlier.
I remember building omen way more often too, when it still had heart of gold.
Note: When I 1st played Shyva I missread her passive as "When in dragon form your entire bonus armor/mgres is doubled". now THAT would be really sick. ^^

Ok, so maybe I was wrong, itemwise. There are items to pick from, thoug it feels as if none of those benefits her nearly as much as a BC does for melees like garren, talon or kazix, or rabadons for any ap champ.
It looks as if you pick some items because of the passive/active or some very special parts, but ignore what you cant use on them. BC, sure nice stats, but the pen, is wasted - Gauntlet/ Trinity, pretty much wasting the magic/ap. sheen doesnt work in dragon Q if not patched.

For CC Botrk + mallet is really nice. the blade has a ranged slow/speed buff, followed by the mallet.

I dont want to waste so much on her. Which brings me back to the classic build.

----
So maybe the items arent the problem, but the way she uses them ?
Or is it her kit?
Or her stats/scaling ?
Or a combination of the above ?

Has someone tried AD/LV marks on her ?
Gives more then 2x the value of the flat marks, but you would loose the ats marks.

She isnt as good in the jungle anymore and doesnt get rewarded for cj. While a fail cant be outbalanced with a gank instead.
Her laning isnt the best either.
Either if you see her as a jungler or a laner, she really could use some changes.

So: RIOT PLEASE!


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Saigo Getsuga

Senior Member

01-28-2013

Got replaced by Xin Zhao as a tanky initiator from the jungle.


Xin actually peels easier, also has better ganking power.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Cmon, how can this thread have 12 pages and not a single red?

There have been so many things mentioned already.
Personally I always saw her as a jungle carry.

Another idea
to buff her dmg in jungle: Increase the dmg on her W if a targets stays in it. Maybe catching fire if it stays for 4 seconds or more ? Or a combination with her E ?
Would be a great fire flair.


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Paaske Da Bes

Senior Member

01-29-2013

@copperpoint

Regarding BC, it's only good for bruiser builds. Unless you really need armor shred on your team and somehow you can stay alive in the middle of their team. She deals mainly physical damage after building damage items.

Gauntlet procs an aoe hit (only 1 hit but is aoe by default so it's not a lose situation) of the 125% base damage. So there's not a potiential loss vs. ad for aoe. But you'd really only buy this item for the aoe slow to peel maybe 2-3 bruisers/assassins/tanks of your carries.

Trinity is about what role you fill in your team. It's comparable to infinity edge damage if you got no other damage items as well. Trinity helps you more getting around and dueling squishy targets (Carries). It use to be really popular top lane but I think even if they reduce the price the sustain war top ain't gonna buy this item. It's a really strong dueling item, and being a tank build (apart from being expensive) you're more about being an annoyance and try to make the team deal with you, than actually being a big problem (classic build). Most people who build trinity force "waste" the ap anyway and the only reason shyvana has ap scaling is to reward her more with baron buff. That goes to most ad bruisers with ap scaling abilities. I mean if no other damage items this vs. infinity gives you a slow on auto attacks movement speed, burst on demand and 250 health. Sounds like a good deal for a damage item for me specially when trinity is getting cheaper. Trinity is through a carry item.

Locket of the iron solari;
It has a lot of stats you want. Cooldown reduction armor and health (maybe not the most of it but it's really cheap) and an amazing active for teamfights. If you don't expect to get a full inventory by the end of the game this item should be solid as a tank. I know Gambit gaming (former m5) rushed it in last IEM on xin over aegis/bulward (which I prob should had mentioned in the classic build, silly me).

I think I talked pretty well into the scaling vs base stat/damage earlier. If that's not the problem she needs rework.


Another thing is, if you want to bring light to it you should write in the @ezreal thread somewhere, referring to this post. He and some ex-designer according to leagueoflegends.wikia.com designed her. Might take him a while to answer through.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-29-2013

Found the thread and done. Maybe we will get some attention.


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Vermana

Senior Member

01-29-2013

So, has Riot ever posted anything regarding balancing Shyvana? I know they completely forgot her in the recent pre-patch notes.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-29-2013

The only thing I found was in a thread about s3 in general (not sure which exactly) where a RED at least admitted that she got "unintentionally nerfed" by the last item and jungle changes.