Matchmaking Changes [1-16-2013]

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IS13940001471ffbdf28d0e

Senior Member

01-19-2013

@Lyte Can you inform that this change will only affect the NA server or the rest of the world?


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Fat of the Land

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Senior Member

01-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
'Experience' doesn't necessarily mean mechanical skill.

A low-win player that has 1500 Elo isn't playing weaker players, they are playing players who have less Champions/Runes.
Less champions and runes doesn't necessarily encompass all of the difference between these players. Less experience could just as easily mean they don't know much about the game or any other number of experience related things. But by matching them against other similarly inexperienced players, you are degrading the integrity of the ranking system.

A low-win 1500 rated player is not objectively 1500. S/he is 1500-lite. But the system won't recognize that distinction will it? High win players should be upset about this because it means they will have to work harder then the old system to get the same amount of rating, and low win players will have an easier time than before.

Maybe matches will be more 'fun' and 'balanced', and that's great for normals, but in Ranked the idea is to get as much rating as an individual can and this new system compromises the integrity of that.


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natemiddleman2

Senior Member

01-19-2013

There is only one problem I have with this system. Lets say 5120 newly lvl 30 players start playing ranked. Lets also assume that their true elo at the moment is between 900-1300 as they are all fairly new to the game and do not have the experience of a 2000+ player. To make things easy lets assume 50 elo gains and losses for their first 10 games and these guys will only play each other and only if they have the same number of wins. So half will win their first match and half of those will win their second match and so on and so on. After 10 games 5 of these 5120 will have won all 10 of their games putting them at 1700 elo. Once these guys start getting more wins though they will start playing against people who actually have a true elo of 1700 and will get crushed.

Basically the only problem with this system is that I doubt the average elo for people who just started playing ranked is 1200. This means that bad players wont drop as quickly as they have a high chance of playing other bad players at an elo higher than their true elo. Ok players will also achieve higher elos than what their true elos are and smerfs will have a much easier time of climbing as they will be playing less skilled people at higher elos. Eventually this will fix itself but for the first 50+ games elo will be even more unreliable than it was previously.

I don't think it really took 150+ games to reach your true elo previously. Ranked is just so different from normals that it takes about this many games to adapt and the people who do, raise their elo, and the people who don't, stay at low elos. Personally I fell to 800 elo, where I belonged, before adapting and climbing up to gold.

PS: Ranked elo will be hidden soon anyway so it won't matter too much


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

01-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
They can try, but there's other things in place just to combat smurfs.
Lyte, can there be some discussion on solutions to smurfing?

I smurf on NA because my main is on EUW, and TBH, with 230-270 ping I don't really level it much. I play most of my games premade with other smurfs.

Now, we take pains to teach people on our teams if we're not a full premade (stuff like buying items..), and to always be courteous to our opponents, but we still usually roll them (We're all exceedingly high Dominion Normal Elo players, 2-2.5k).

But, I don't want to smurf :-/ I smurf because me creating and playing on a lower level account is the only way I can play on NA - which is smurfing. If I could link this account to my EUW account, with over 100 champions and about 100 skins unlocked, I'd be really happy, and even if the Elo of the players I play against will be lower originally, they'd still have more of a chance than genuinely new level 10-20 players playing against me and my friends, even if we all have 150-300 ping on NA.

It's probably the same for people who for some reason want a Ranked smurf, they don't really want to "smurf", it's just a reality forced on them until they hit the coveted level 30.
If smurfing has no real upsides, then I wish more could be done to do away with the "need" to "smurf".


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ShodaNs

Senior Member

01-19-2013

The match making seems much better so far. Maybe it's just coincidence but I've run into far less trolls lately.


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CrazedPorcupine

Senior Member

01-19-2013

I've been getting matched with steadily worse and worse players in solo queue. It's making me angry that I usually win lane, gank, push tower properly, avoid ganks from the enemy jungler, yet still lose JUST because my team is stupid and lose their lanes.


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Celestya

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Senior Member

01-19-2013

Queue times are ENORMOUS for me now with the changes, sitting at 2654 normal wins. I honestly do not like this queue time change, having to wait 10m for a game is absurd.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

01-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
The new matchmaking feature does not only use Number of Wins to match players. Number of Wins is now just another parameter (among the many!) that the matchmaker will consider.

When we initially considered this feature, we also believed that skill ratings like Elo were accurate enough that we didn't need Number of Wins as an additional parameter; after all, players typically reach their true skill rating brackets within 150 games. However, when we dove into the research we found some surprising results. For example, some players choose to level up through Co-op vs AI games. Once they hit Level 30, they jump into Normals and get absolutely crushed by players who played Normals to hit Level 30. Because matchmaking now takes into account Number of Wins, these Co-op vs AI players will no longer start their journey into Normals against players with over 1000+ wins in Normals already.

We also found that Number of Wins does make a difference in Ranked Mode--especially at the lower wins bracket. Assuming equal Elos, there might not be a difference between players with 1000 Ranked Wins versus 1200 Ranked Wins, but we definitely saw some lopsided games with players with 1 Ranked Win versus 100 Ranked Wins.

When it comes to matchmaking, there are many dimensions that reflect a player's skill in League of Legends. We could argue that Elo represents the 'mechanical skill' of a player; for example, if a 1400 Elo player faced off against a 1500 Elo player with the exact same runes, masteries and champions, the 1500 Elo player should win a majority of the match-ups.

However, this doesn't necessarily capture the 'experience' of a player. In League of Legends, more experienced players tend to have better rune selections and a larger champion stable for complex counterplay. We find that adding Number of Wins to the matchmaker does a decent job of accounting for 'experience,' so we're testing this feature to determine if the increased queue times are worth the potential accuracy improvements in the matchmaker.

This is the kind of feature that may not actually improve the matchmaker for other games, but in League of Legends where players can build out their collection of runes and champions... it just might work.
Hello Lyte, I've had a few things on the back of my mind since this feature was originally discussed before the Winter's Break, which are brought up in this post.

1. This will be a god-send to people who play Dominion a lot in the "starter Elo area", they often complain they have 200-500 wins and get matched with 10 win players who don't even know the "Basic stuff", such as 1 bot, 1 gets mid, 3 head for Windmill immediately.

However, some of these 10 win Dominion players have 1k SR Wins. Consequently, they often have a lot of rune pages, and a lot of runes. The assumption above regarding Number of wins => Runes correlation is that most people do not "Hop Queues", but players who level to 30 by playing Co-Op vs. AI games are not going to be much behind people who leveled using Normals.

2. I've recently began playing SR Normals again, after playing mostly Dominion, and earning Gold last season on the old TT. I have about 40 SR wins. I'm much more mechaniclly skilled than people in my games as it is already, I fear this change will make the experience I gain in these games worth even less, but I trust once my Normal Elo goes up I'll still get matched with other similar players/players with more wins, at the cost of longer queue times?

3. You could perhaps tie things to IP as an indicator of experience, or also have ratings for both the specific queue the player is playing in and another with less weight given for wins in all PvP game-modes?


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Struggler9996

Senior Member

01-19-2013

I thought it was weird that I was seeing so many people with over 2000 games played, but I guess this is the reason for it.

I've only got just over 500 wins, though, and the people I play with have a few hundred more and a few less, so no idea why we got the big outliers.


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Doowen

Senior Member

01-19-2013

When will you allow us to see our unranked elo ?