Matchmaking Changes [1-16-2013]

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ZephyBlaze77

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryios View Post
Riot should create a match point system so that their are actual objectives. E.g.
---Jungle (only a person with smite gets points for jungle clearing, would discourage no jungle team comps)---
-Blue: 1pt
-Wolves: 1pt
-Wraiths: 1pt
-Baron: 50pt
-Dragon: 10pt
-Red: 1pt
-Double Golems: 1pt

--Fights--
1 Kill: 2pt
Assist: 1pt
Double Kill: 3pt
Triple Kill: 6pt
Quadra Kill: 12pt
Penta Kill: 20pt

--Structures--
10 pts each
Inhibs: 20 pts each
Nexus: no points, ends the game

--Wards--
Killing an enemy ward: 10pts (shows pink/oracle skill)
Placing a ward: 2pts

--Surrender--
Opposing team gets 100 pts automatically for forced submission.

--Pt Caps--
Have placing wards cap at 20 pts (10 wards) per person on the team, this would encourage more than 1 person to ward.

Each Team Get's a Global Point pool, each player earning pts adds to that pool. Each player would have an individual point pool showing them just the points they earned the team.

Ultimately, the points don't mean much in terms of ladder rankings. But it would give a plethora of data to use for matchmaking. You could judge a player's skill purely on how often they ward, pink ward, oracle, jungle, drop baron, get dragon on the timer every time, etc.

Something else that might push players to be better is an achievments system

-Get a Penta Kill
-Get a Quadra Kill
-Get a Triple Kill
...
-Kill Baron
-Win in <20 minutes
-Don't surrender for 5 games
-Don't surrender for 10 games
-Don't surrender for 15 games
....
-Don't surrender for 1000 games
-Play support for 10 games
-Play support for 20 games
...
-Play Tank for X
-Play ADC for X
...
-Jungle
-etc

I can just picture the chat window on a bad game...

Player A: Surrender, we can't win
Player A: What, why you click no
Player BCDE: Nope not surrendering
Player A: Why not, we can't win...
Player BCDE: I want the achievement
Player A: ... which one?
Player BCDE: Don't surrender for 1000 games..
Player A: might as well remove surrender....

Just think about it. Say a really good and skilled player gets lazy for 10 games and stops warding, and just carries, but doesn't acquire many variations of pts. His pt influence in match making would drop game by game until he gets grouped with people that don't ward well, don't pink ward, etc etc. Something like this would encourage people to play well, and continue to play well if they want to continue to get good matchups.
This would just solidify the current stale meta even more..


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Ryios

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyBlaze77 View Post
If people have such huge problems, why the hell aren't they downvoting the main post?

Seriously, I have to go through 7 matches before someone accepts/doesn't quit. And it's an 80% chance that I'm going to lose because my team is gonna get pubstomped.

People mass upvoted it the first few days the change was announced without really having any hard experience with the system.


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ExtremeKillez

Junior Member

01-30-2013

@Lyte
@RiotKiddington


Can you please check my match history please? Last season I was around 800+ elo, but early S3 i worked hard and managed to get to 1300+ elo. NOW after the new ranked que changes, I kept on getting negative attitude player, AFK, feeder (purposely going 1v5 ) and so on more OFTEN than before this.

I know that I did bad some game , that's normal, some people have bad games as well, but WHy is it so OFTEN? MY hard work to raise my elo, now became POINTLESS!! I lose my game, and NOT EVEN CLOSE GAME/ QUALITY GAME, and now my elo dropped drastically. Was it my fault ? Or somethng wrong with the system? I dont mind losing as long as I had quality game, but this?? Not even balanced from my point of view.

edit: for the last 10 games, 3 win and 7 loses. 1 game i did really bad, but the other 6 games either with AFK/DC, Intentionally feeding (keep on running towards enemy and LAUGH afterwards), etc. I did really good early game and won my lane with score like 3/0/0 or 2/1/0, but the rest of my team was like 0/6/0, 0/8/0, to the point that I cant even do any threat to them, and at the end they just dive the turret like nothing there. What happened to ranked game these day?

edit 2: keep getting worst. From 800+ (s2) to 1300+ (early season 3) to now 1100 thanks to the new ranked system. i lost around 200 elo since the changes had been made. And i do agree with some post that it either you get hella good team, or either hella bad team. The final score different will be much FAR apart in every game. How is that balance?

edit 3:
For last 10 Normal Games: I won like 8 out of 10 games ;
Last 10 Ranked Games, I won only like 2 times out of 10 games?
Am i losing in Ranked coz im bad, or what? how did I got hella good score / win in normal but my team got stomped in ranked when both match-making using similar system?


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Ryios

Senior Member

01-30-2013

More trolls in normals, people don't take them anywhere near as seriously. And ranked attracts a different breed of players than normals. I lot of people play normals because they don't care about being ranked. E.g. Eventually, I'll play ranked, but I'm not going to do that until I feel comfortable playing every role on at least 3 different champs.


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Desperado Dave

Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Yes, the main reason we are testing this feature is because of data suggesting that Number of Wins makes a meaningful difference especially when it's players with lower number of wins. For example, a player with 10 wins versus a player with 100 wins is a meaningful difference; however, a player with 1000 wins versus a player with 5000 wins isn't that different.
I often find players compared at 500 wins to a player with 1000+ wins is a huge difference in a number of things. When I search for players I look for people with over 1k wins, reasoning being, the experience with a large amount of champions, the variety of runsets and champs they can play well, as well as attitude. It has been quite some time since I have seen players post "KS KS". Back in the 700 or below wins area it was quite common for players to post that. Great way to advance the game!


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A U L

Senior Member

01-30-2013

There may be a variable here that is not mentioned. A lot of people are mentioning games where 4 players are really well experienced and good against a team of 5 players of equal skill; but then there's that one person on their team who is rather unskilled and/or inexperienced.
The more I see this I am reminded of games where friends duo, trio, and/or quad queue and one of them is relatively new. This may explain this problem.

I've always gotten the impression that matchmaker takes paired groups and raises their average elo compared to non-paired enemies. I feel it's designed to take into consideration the fact that two or more people who play often together tend to be more coordinated and effective than a team of people who don't know each other. Thus, a duo queue matched against a team of solo queuers will likely have been placed in a game against a team of slightly stronger players individually as a way to make up for the effectiveness of duo teams.

IF this is true, and I don't know i just suspect, then you can end up with a friend pair of one good player and one unskilled one paired up against two skilled players and matchmaking will assume that the game should equal out. I'm not sure that is true though.

I mean, we all know a 5 man premade will likely only go up against another. But when you are up against smaller premade numbers how does that work? Perhaps THAT is the wrench in the new matchmaker equation.


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RighteousFreed

Senior Member

01-30-2013

more games where people refuse to listen just amazing diving turrets at level 1 and then feeding double kills i cant believe ive fallen to this level and keep falling when people are just feeding left and right and doing everything possible to lose this system is not working do something quickly this is out of hand


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iD BLaZeY

Senior Member

01-31-2013

do it for SR, TT only

dominion has less players and the que times will be horrific.

besides thats a fun mode anyway, easy to carry.


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Kardainz

Member

01-31-2013

The only thing this accounts for = 1000 game players will either be very bad or very good, unlike match making, this say in dom doesnt increase the time in que if your say 1000+ games, but if your like my brother who is say 2500ish, 27min dom que....


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InFamousD147

Junior Member

01-31-2013

I am a support player, and generally that is what I play, but I can do every role. Ill play 200 games as support, and when I get higher position in Q and I want to play mid or top, I get trolled and derped by my team cause they "called" it first. Then I get punished by tribunal and lose all my “helpful” thumbs up cause I argued with the team or individual about it despite Tribunal code, and despite out of 20 games playing support and the 1 I wanted to mid. So I changed can’t beat’em join’em. Started calling my spot, then all of a sudden people decide pick order (they way I used to do it) is now > then calling and I get trolled/reported again. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t (Again despite 20 games I played what know one called or picked….you guessed it >SUPPORT<
So RIOT what’s my incentive to even if ever pick support?
People see me do crazy thing's and tell me WOW ORIANNA support CraZy good, and can’t believe what they see cause I’ve been derped so many times that I was forced to learn her support style. I play many champs and always the outcome of KDA ends up looking like a support cause I have been forced / trolled/ derped into it sooo much I can’t evolve my skills to a point out of that support style of play. In turn I am fighting harder in ranked to secure a win with a teams cause I end up having to help with supporting cause of weak supports, and for some its just cause they never play it (not that they can’t, but because they don’t want to) or they troll pick and decide they can support as Annie/Heimer or Brand…yes any character can support that doesn’t make it a good or better decision for you, your adc, or your team….especially when Riot designed characters specifically for that role.

Season 2 (check it if you don't believe me my most played characters were true supports ) Wukong top, Orianna mid, Maok jungle and there KDA end up more often then not with support stats. I HAD THE CRAPPIEST ELO that fluxed 0-800 on the regular but still have more wins then losses in Ranked. I just got threw playing a tournament Virginia Tech hosted with several guys that Ive never played with before and was there jungle, played support 1 game and they quickly switched me and kicked there support of the team for me I quote them “you just have that support mentality, we noticed even with your jungle “ So we switched it up and we started winning. There all 1300 and greater ELO and I played with guyz 1300-1500 when our team matched up vs others and I out played other supports and got my ADC fed vs other’s supports who sit on 1300+ elos and I am 800?
Now they told me ELO only means so much, but as a support they said it really sucks for you cause without a good permanent ADC by your side you'll never get to carry a team or get yourself out so enjoy being stuck. ADC or TOP carry have the get out of jail free card cause they can steal it from there supports.
When will support players get some love?! Gold runes? LOL awesome make squishy supports squishier while farm and DMG builds go to other 4 on team… O YAH that will work. *laughs* When will riot or teams support the support?? I am sooo tired of never getting to play anything else, and I am tired of have to Zippy around trying to help my team stay alive and get killz to pull a win so I can grab some elo and play against other supports who have a ADC friend that sticks around or lives near them or is on a good ranked team together. I had 1 once and he disappeared once he hit 1100 and left me still at 940. Which I quickly lost… supporting excuse me ungrateful, arrogant ADC’s who hardly deserve the title.

Don't get me wrong, I love to play support, I just hate that I can’t get a break when the few times I want to play a different position I can't, and am subjugated to reports as a troll. I want to further evolve even my support characters against other supports who have those ADC friends or friend.
Why doesn't Riot take into account how much someone plays a certain character?
Why doesn’t RIOT give move love/elo to support characters when used? I can go 1/3/40 as a TRUE support, but that will never carry a team for a win. I just lost with Alistar 4/6/43, cause I was up down left and rite helping my team and defusing an arguing Shaco/Malz so we could pull together and win, but by the time I did, it was to late to salvage the win cause of the push lead and lost, my ADC MF had 40Killz and loved me, I loved her we didn’t even need to speak we messed so well but we still lost despite our efforts…WHY?! Cause even as an OP character my build was support and just doesn’t do the dmg to carry a team especially in this situation cause there TOP Darius and ADC caught up by picking off our weak links TOP/MID/JUNGLE...but the game did last 1hour 20min of Exhausted efforts for a substantial elo loss...and its not the loss that bothers me, it the fact that Riot has shown no love to its Few true support players.
That game might be 1 out of every 10 for that MF/ADC but its more like 9/10 for me as a ALI/support. my friends list is full of ADC players who had ELO’s just like mine or even lower, and now there all higher or left me behind after I got them out of elo hell they meet more rounded teams and people and really don’t need to rely on the support anymore once out of the stream of ELO hell losses. They only send a friend invite when they start to fall and excellent/ reliable support to get them back up and while I boost there elo, and mine, the days I get no invites and jump into solo que and support I lose what was earned hence the flux 0-800 with more +30 more wins then losses, how can this be possible?! PLEASE LOOK ME UP ON LOL Look under season 2 and look at the percent usage of champs…CALL ME A LIER!
I have brought new meaning to unorthodox build lux season 2 (playing her passive 4 farm, boots of swiftness , ghost/clarity spamming her abilities building max cool downs on all her abilities, attk speed, good AP (maybe not carry lvl but enough to hurt) so I could dual role her support/ap and people used to laugh and call me a troll off it if the team failed before I could finish or capitalize the build, but 6 out of 10 times it worked in elo hell and that +1 was more then enough to someone who sees a lot of –negative elo and players. Now I see a **** load of people doing it and downloading it to see it on LOLreplay (don’t believe me look me up on LOLreplay and the downloads of the lux build).

Now what people used to laugh at me for there all doing I learned to Dual Role her Crazy just so maybe just maybe, I could support and AP carry, for those on the team lacking, and then RIOT breaks AP ranged champs and switches up the items. Now this build doesn’t do like it used to, and I knew I need another way out now….
After playing so much support I learned and now I am a decent ADC, I’d say of watching experienced ADC and applying what I saw them do, I'd say 1 out of 3 times I ADC better then most ADC that think they can handle that role, but people call and pick it so much I don’t argue and take my best role SUPPORT : ) Hope high, they are dashed, and when they fail they blame me, someone who plays support religiously. Then they say look at your score when were lossing and I am 1/11/6, WELL WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE? I am a support....its gonna look bad cause I dont pick up kills, and I cant support someone who has fed others.
I can go on for hours about the problems (I wont) but then…..
RIOT....you punish me cause I need a break from my favorite role play something else when I get mad cause I wanted to play mid got trolled and argued with someone who always jumps in Q and says “MID or TOP”
COME ON ARE WE 5?! Is League the playground and I have to call the swings first?! And run to it to make sure I get it!?

LOOK AT THE RATIO!!!!! Don’t I get to play mid once in a while?! ALL I DO IS SUPPORT! AND I DO IT WELL my ADC’s on my friends list have all left me behind cause I can’t carry as a support, but I sure as hell carried them out. Then they only invite me to there high ranked games when there slipping.
Excuse me but F*ck That.

Then THE WORST, THE ABSOLUTE WORST, is someone that jumps in the ranked Q and says

"I CAN DO ANYTHING BUT SUPPORT" .................................................. ....................really?

OMG.... INSTABAN HIM, but no......you want to punish me....and then you wonder why there aren't enough support players out there in LOL when compared to the Ratio of other roles. Lets see how games go without and how LOL becomes without supports like me dedicated it to it and truly try and support that ADC the team, the supports that take a dive to get them out and keep up there killing spree. They get the love on the Stats, the elo and individual ego glory I hate at the end of games people who say PRO Draven, PRO MF, PRO Corki....just remember (not in all cases) but Id say in most you only got there cause you had a good support by your side warding, keeping an eye on you threw out the game even when you do make a stupid mistake. We clean up your Sh*t, and the days were off our game, you love to throw the Sh*t on us a truly good ADC can ADC solo, the support is just toppings for your ice cream.

League of Legends Support - NO LOVE / NO ELO / NO NOTHING.
Its "outrageous truly truly outrageous" Thanks Riot, for the bans, and Emails- warnings from tribunal, and the hope dashing ELO ratings for those of us who have HIGH statistics using support characters, and the few times we would like to play a different spot, you allow people who come into Q and say "I play anything but support" issue a punishment on me.....EPIC FAIL….
That's like a Teacher with a Teaching Certificate, evaluating a Teacher with their Master’s Degree in Teaching. Despite the experience, time, and efforts, you allow those with an understanding punish me??
I AM A VETEREN SEASON 1 EARLY SEASON 1. This guy doesn’t even own a skin but he’s got a badge?!
I AM FROM SEASON 1 with over 4000 games under my belt! HOW DARE YOU?! And have turned to my smurf account (the one I rage, BS on and rarely play support on) have a higher ELO?!?!?! You allow that SN to have a higher ELO then the one I truly play and support on….heh come on….wtf….
How would you like that?

Shame on Riot....anyways…I needed to say it and let them know.

Much Love to all my ADC who came back to secure there support go out safe to. Much Love to the ADC’s when they can give that 1 kill to their support to give up the gold to build up, Much Love to ALL THOSE who know anyone can buy wards and (mid/late game) help ward so there support can finish there build. Much Love to all my True Support players who take the dmg, and throw an ult or heal to their teammate as you die. You guyz deserve more and better then what Riot has offered.
This post might be the only Love for that position you'll get....GL supporting, I might give up the role strictly cause it seems like our community pool is few and far from many....2 ADC bot new meta! We know what happens with 2 mid already don’t we?
I maybe done as playing support and become one of those “ I can play thing but support “ in those ranked Q’s if no love to supports is given. Riot is lucky and should kiss the creators ass of who ever made LuLu, cause Im to proud of a support player to give her up. IF they even think about nerfing my LuLu.... I am done playing as a support and will leave it faster then they can say Zippy.