I don't see much of Quinn.. Why exactly?

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Squeaksie

Member

08-02-2013

Personally, I like how Quinn's kit works out. She gets a blind to give her a little edge in-lane, a nice little vision spell to quickly check for awaiting ganks, a solid ult that gives her the ability to run away from an unfair fight or chase fleeing champions down, and a passive that helps her last hit. Not to mention a neat flip-trick that brings her closer to her target, while marking them with her passive.

I'm just curious as to why I don't see her often. Is she just not viable?


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Eninya

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Below average standalone early game, long cooldown on ultimate, Harrier is uncooperative in bot lane.

She's a great mid and late game champion and is highly mobile and fairly powerful... in her ultimate. She makes a good solo laner, but a finicky bot lane ADC. Even her jungling is better than bot lane. As an ADC her design is counter-intuitive to what an ADC should do. To maximize her power you must use your ultimate and go melee. Her power as a ranged damage dealer hinges completely on Harrier procs, both for the damage and the buff. In her ultimate it becomes a passive.

I like her best as a top lane bruiser/tanky DPS as you have greater manipulation of Harrier's targeting than a bot lane. Also, since most top laners are melee you tend to have a decent advantage.


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Squeaksie

Member

08-02-2013

Huh. So, excuse me if I'm wrong, but would she be a decent top laner to try out if one is used to playing that rage-inducing yordle? I mean, she has a blind like Teemo; though it's a skill shot and not targeted. She's got a similar range to him I think, too.

I dunno, I really like playing Teemo top lane, but I've been told that he doesn't support his team well enough to be played in ranked. (Which I can argue well against, but I shan't tonight. Too late for that.)

I'm just looking for a bit of familiarity to play with so my friends will let me continue to play top.


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RadiantPyrophore

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Eninya doesn't know what he/she/it is talking about at all. No idea whatsoever.

Quinn sees little play for several reasons:

#1: Very high skill cap and entry level RADC.
#2: Ultimate is for roaming/assassination/duels, and NEVER, EVER for diving headlong into the middle of a team fight like a ****tard, like most Quinns do.
#3: Most Quinns also rush BotRK and level Vault before Heightened Senses, which is virtually always a bad idea. You should be rushing a large AD item, BT if you can swing it, is much preferable for a first big item, Quinn scales much, much better with attack damage than with attack speed until quite late in the game.
#4: Quinn's passive requires a great deal of management, as well as understanding of how it works. It's not clunky at all, people are just bad and try to play a champion with a totally unique and complex mechanic, upon which her entire kit hinges, without bothering to learn how it works.

Quinn actually has a very, very strong laning phase, with extremely high harass and trading potential, often acting as a bully, even to the likes of Ezreal and possibly Caitlyn, given a decent support. Carries like Ashe and Draven are just tasty lickin's in lane. Again, people think her laning is weak due to being horribad at managing her passive.

As others have pointed out, Quinn can easily go top lane, much like Vayne, and do very well for herself. She has also been known to go mid, although I cannot offer much of my own experience in that matter, she certainly rapes most of the mids I am familiar with come level 6.


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Eninya

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantPyrophore View Post
#4: Quinn's passive requires a great deal of management, as well as understanding of how it works. It's not clunky at all, people are just bad and try to play a champion with a totally unique and complex mechanic, upon which her entire kit hinges, without bothering to learn how it works.

Quinn actually has a very, very strong laning phase, with extremely high harass and trading potential, often acting as a bully, even to the likes of Ezreal and possibly Caitlyn, given a decent support. Again, people think her laning is weak due to being horribad at managing her passive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eninya View Post
I like her best as a top lane bruiser/tanky DPS as you have greater manipulation of Harrier's targeting than at bot lane.
Burning me and agreeing with me and the general consensus at alternating points is intriguing.

http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=...nn-build-guide
Quote:
--your passive, Harrier, is kinda unreliable because you can't target ppl you want other than using E
--A pretty darn good passive that scales well with AD. The one thing that I don't like is that you can't target people that you want to without using your E ability (although it does "prioritize" stuff).
http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=...nn-build-guide
Quote:
--Quinn is an AD carry with weak early game, but scales extremely well into mid and late. Her specialty lies in her ability to catch out and chase down lone targets and with her skillset, she is able to beat most champions in a 1v1 situation. Her high movement speed when using Tag Team even allows her to split push away from her team and still get to any fight very quickly.
It isn't complex at all to manipulate her passive, but it's not foolproof outside of Vault. If you want to crush a lane you have to take some serious risks or pray the RNG gods favor you.


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Eninya

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Making a separate post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaksie View Post
Huh. So, excuse me if I'm wrong, but would she be a decent top laner to try out if one is used to playing that rage-inducing yordle? I mean, she has a blind like Teemo; though it's a skill shot and not targeted. She's got a similar range to him I think, too.

I dunno, I really like playing Teemo top lane, but I've been told that he doesn't support his team well enough to be played in ranked. (Which I can argue well against, but I shan't tonight. Too late for that.)
Teemo is actually a strong pick for top in ranked, but if you're not running a bruiser/tanky champion top your composition will need to adjust for this. Teemo brings map control and powerful AP, and he allows you to play defensively on your own turf or setup battlefields given the time. He is also a strong kiter and AP auto attacker come late game, though he is squishy as a glass cannon shroomlord.

You can experiment with Quinn top how you like, but I prefer her as a tanky DPS so that she can survive team fights and focus during her ultimate. Since you'll likely be running an actual ADC bot lane I typically build Randuin's Omen for peeling and Black Cleaver for focus targets. She gains massive attack speed during her ultimate and she can quickly stack BC's proc for your ADC to shred just about anyone. (I usually have BotRK in my builds, along with something like Mercurial Scimitar, Maw, GA, etc. -- I build what I need to depending on the game, so I've had a variety of item combinations.) I really like BotRK because it synergizes well with BC and she can chase/flee from just about anyone with the active combining with her ultimate's massive MS boost. You can even chase down and eat a Singed (assuming you're strong enough).

Just be wary of your cooldowns and you'll do fine. Against skilled laners learning how to manipulate Harrier is an absolute must.


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Sadistic Cheese

Senior Member

08-02-2013

I tend to agree with Radiant's comment about NOT using her ult to rush into teamfights like a derp. Seen a lot of people do it, especially when she was last on Free Week and it made me sad. I'm still working on learning Quinn beyond just the basics and even I know that's a poor idea/basically suicide. I suppose depending on the enemy team composition you might not get locked up by CC and destroyed beyond belief, but I think the odds on that are very, very long indeed.

But you folks do have me curious: What do you mean by manipulating Harrier? I know it prioritizes enemies you've attacked last and if you haven't hit anyone, low health champions, or barring that, low-health minions. But aside from Vault how are you manipulating Harrier?


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Eninya

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic Cheese View Post
But you folks do have me curious: What do you mean by manipulating Harrier? I know it prioritizes enemies you've attacked last and if you haven't hit anyone, low health champions, or barring that, low-health minions. But aside from Vault how are you manipulating Harrier?
Harrier doesn't default to anything specific, and it does tend to pick a target completely at random from time to time. It does not favor one thing over another, specifically. One thing to note is that it can mark your focus target before your auto connects. This can be important to pressuring without engaging or giving you more time to prepare/setup/see if they make a mistake. It's finicky, but if you play in a solo lane with it enough you'll find that it can actually be manipulated to a degree.

Say you're facing a melee champion top lane. Your waves are against each other, and he's attempting to last hit the furthest melee minion to one side (ex: south side). By positioning yourself to the outer edge of the clump of minions you'll restrict its targeting pool, and if you initiate an attack before Harrier picks one randomly you can have a great chance of having it select the champion. From there, circumstances depending, you can strike with Harrier, then Vault for the second proc for massive burst damage.

The same pool restriction idea reflects when they chase you or if you get attacked in the jungle. Harrier doesn't seem to respond to any attempts to manipulate it in the jungle, but it likes to mark champions when they invade.

The concept really isn't complex in practice. Just be wary of your position vs. the target's position when preparing yourself to harass.

The technique works in bot lane as well, but to a weaker or less effective degree. Due to line nuke harass such as those from the likes of Ezreal, Caitlyn, or Corki, coupled with an aggressive harassing support, you can find yourself bailing too early to use it or shifting your desired locations too much. You can also end up marking the wrong champion that you want to focus. This is why I view Quinn as weak in bottom lane. It's not that her passive can't be used there, it's just that utilizing it on its own isn't really up to you. Vault is the only way you can guarantee it marks your desired target, and her passive is crucial to winning the lane.

It's just my opinion that Quinn is a weak bottom laner as a result of her finicky (but important) passive. Feel free to disagree and try her out yourself. You may have better luck than I when it comes to manipulating it down there.


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Robot Beat Rally

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eninya View Post
Harrier doesn't default to anything specific, and it does tend to pick a target completely at random from time to time.
Wait what, am I missing something. It seems like it always prioritizes the last person you attacked to me? Maybe I'm not following. I do suck with Quinn so...


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KiddShark

Junior Member

08-02-2013

I gotta admit, I do like being the one who plays Quinn a lot and not seeing her at all.

I love Quinn and she's my best ADC.
Sure her melee ranged Valor is counter-intuitive to the role of an ADC, but doesn't it spice the game up a little bit? Hehe.

Personally, yes her passive is random and could use a tune up, but overall she's fun.
She takes a bit of getting used to of course, but that's with any champion.

Either way, it's skill overall with your champion that matters when it comes to gameplay and how you work with your team. I've managed to shut down Caitlyn's and Vayne easy and come out on top and win the game by working with my team.

Some people look into things too much.

I give Quinn a thumbs up; 5 if I could.