@ItemsGuy I feel your approach starting this thread had good intention but you got way to carried way with the remakes, readability, counter play, and theme. First of all readability is not an issue no matter how readable you make abilities in the end there just particle effects and new players are going to be confused this game has a large learning curve and people accept that. I agree that some champs have theme issues (eg. sion and shen) but you take it way to far trying to justify every little detail and ability.I understand that proper theme can make the game better but to much can be a bad thing especially for a moba type game. Also i think your take on counter play is what riot was trying to get rid of hard champion counters like in Dota it is not fun it takes away from skill and and being able to outplay your opponent.
As far as your remakes go on some of them you talk about change on champions like Renekton, Warwick, or Ryze you change one ability to that resembles the original one and somehow that makes them better fit there theme and play style but in reality it had no effect. And some of your remakes just bad in terms of theme and mechanics such as Yorick he's a gravedigger he puts bodies in the ground not raises them hes not a necromancer his theme doesn't really make sense but you made it worse and the mechanics are really bad you have made him the worst champion in the league a 3 second channel on a basic ability try using that in lane and what happens when you die and are trying to defend the your base and have no graves Yorick can do nothing. That's the problem with being to reliant on a stationary object like Zyra's plants she has to have those plants or she's useless which is why she was not designed like that in the first place. You also wanted to make Hecarim more of a minotaur but hes a centaur and once again you changed nothing you said you wanted to get rid of q mashing but all you did was add a passive to it. Veigar is a magician he uses MAGIC there for not all of his abilities need to make complete sense. And some of the decisions for cc on characters like Veigar or Rammus is because they need it to be a decent champ. And Brand is fine he burns stuff. I admit I did not read all of the remakes but I read a majority and didn't think there was much change on some champions and too much on others.
When it comes down to it league of legends is based on the game play, mechanics, and balancing so there has to be decisions based on other things like mechanics and how summoners rift, dominion, and twisted treeline are played its not easy to balance three maps on every champion. And you are still a person how has not even graduated yet and you talk like you know better then the developers. You have no idea whats its like to build a champ ground up and make then work well and get balancing right I do agree some of your points are good but taken way to far especially the with nit picking. I do understand that non of these changes are made for league but they just don't work in the moba type game.
@ItemsGuy: I just looked up a picture of some cartoon guy (needed inspiration, like you said) and sketched something out. It's not too bad, though I'm not quite sure it embodies the absorb or the void concept. Tell me what you think.
(By the way, it's really hard to draw with a mouse)
Edit: My roommate said it reminded him of Geodude, though strangely enough I've never seen him before. My source material was actually: http://ben10.wikia.com/wiki/The_Worst
Also, I think making his tongue less coporeal and more wispy might afford for smoother "I drain a target" animation. And of course this would be adapted artistically to match what void creatures typically look like (just wanted to get a bare bones of his being mapped out). Who knows? Since you reworked Kog'Maw into Ko...lat'Maw (?) the older version's mouth can be transposed onto this guy.
I appreciate your concern, but we've answered pretty much all of these "issues" already. Please browse through the thread and read through what we've written, then come back to us if there was anything that wasn't addressed. Two things we haven't gone into detail about:
Hard-Counters: Nonexistent. If you can play your strengths, you win. If you let the enemy play their strengths, they win. Even now, if you just looked at Teemo's strengths and Darius's weaknesses, you'd think that Teemo is a hard-counter to him--but that's not the case. If Teemo keeps his range, he wins, but if Darius can close that gap and keep it closed, he wins. If redesign!Swain can keep redesign!Ez in lane, he wins, but Ez wins if he can turn the situation into one wherein leaving his lane wouldn't be disadvantageous.
Every champ has weaknesses that can be taken advantage of, and every champ has strengths that they will try to capitalize on. There is always something you'd be able to do to decrease your opponent's effectiveness, and if you make the game more about your strengths than their strengths, you win. Also, keep in mind that this is a team game--which brings me to my next point.
Games Won And Lost At champ Select: No different than 5 people instalocking the same role and expecting to win. Will you need to be more mindful at champ select now that strengths and weaknesses have been pushed and defined? Of course! That's not a bad thing--team composition is as much a part of every League match as any, and if you screw up there, you're going to feel it. At champ select, do you try to cover everyone's weaknesses? Build around one champion to accentuate their strengths (Protect the Kog does this currently)? Try to be flexible and pick a few champs that can either spec into roles on the go (ie. Vlad, Viktor) or have a wider option of lanes without sacrificing effectiveness?
There's a strategy to champ select--just like everything else, I'm accentuating that too.
That's a start! Getting a face on it certainly helped get the ball rolling. Not sure if it necessarily gets "gonna absorb stuff" across, but we can spitball.
Gonna let this thread sink for the time being! Discussion is kind of aimless for now, but I'll try to keep it near the top if I see Morello posting again. We just got one more thread of conversation to resolve before we can put this thread out to pasture!
@ItemsGuy/BestBilbo I do realize that I came off as a bit of an ******* some points I brought up were unnecessary but I also feel that the way you write things makes it seem champion designing is not that hard and sorry to bring this up again ItemsGuy has no real experience. It just comes down to how it will work in game and if you could pull off theme, mechanics, balancing, and readability to fit together every time it would be great but a little to much to ask for. Most just nitpicking remakes because your going to find problems with everything so nitpicking details is kind of pointless. Overall you did put a lot of work into this thread even though I disagree with some things thanks for the discussion.
Had some more spare time:
Feedback would be appreciated (from anyone!). And any other ideas for a champion that absorbs things?
Edit: Yes... I did get a little carried away once I got the idea of black and white and circles...
As much as I'd love to continue discussing the finer points of champion creation with you, I think it would be best if we took this to the Player Concepts subforum--if you link me up, we can continue this development over there!
Again, gonna try to let this sink to the bottom until Morello's back on the forums (might not be for a while, since the few days after huge patches tend to be quite busy). If it looks like things have quieted down a bit more over at Riot, I'll see if I can contact him via Twitter and ask him about that question on page 45! Some closure on that convo thread would be great--after that, I'll let this thread do whatever it may, and perhaps update it in 10 days or so!
EDIT: Morello sighting! Quick bump to get this baby back in the air.
@Joc- Gonna have to look at that later, I'm out and about for today.
I really like your well done post and how it continues to evolve. Good work and I agree with everything you have said for the most part and have really always though about this. Since I'm a Nidalee fan and you know it I'm going to go ahead and take a look at what you got and throw in my thoughts and ideas.
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