Are Champions As Awesome As They Could Be? @Morello @Feralpony @IronStylus @Xypherous

First Riot Post
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MerryMad

Junior Member

01-23-2013

Apparently this Lolkis person is a paranoid asswipe who thinks complete strangers can't agree with each other. Anyways, I noticed Twisted Fate isn't on the remake list. How come?


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-23-2013
11 of 22 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelflame View Post
On the topic of Brand... could his W just leave a burn field that applies his passive? Would make an interesting aspect to it. His W ravages the land so greatly that it burns after the fact, setting any who cross it alight.
Maybe - if we were making him today I think it would. It solves some of the issues of satisfaction Coronach and I worried about originally.


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-23-2013
12 of 22 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisla View Post
As a very long time Moba player i gotta say leagues doesnt have the "Depth" alot of other ones do, not just complexity but more of a lack of options (example: why cant blitz pull allies out of trouble? opens up a huge amount of depth to her playstyle) combos with champs would add a whole layer this game really needs. difficulty doesnt have to mean depth but the option to do more with what were given would be really nice. Syndra throwing her tank into an enemy team? ya thatd be awesome way to initiate.
I agree Tiny Toss and other mechanics like that do make skills more deep for sure. This is a decision we make only because the cost is the griefing potential or, worse, a player trying to help and instead of just failing, losing the game entirely. It's a tough decision overall, in my mind, because I think we all agree that these things are more interesting generally. Tresh's Lantern is actually a way we're trying to see how we add the type of gameplay without the issues.


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Arechon Gend

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItemsGuy View Post
From now on, off-topic points will be ignored.

And again, including more maps is not the way to go because it just makes the game harder to balance and splits the playerbase. Summoner's Rift (LoL's main attraction) would have to vie for player attention, and that's not good.

The example I think Rioters used was Counter Strike--where there were so many maps that there was no real "core" to hold the game together, so it fell apart into obscurity. If LoL is to become the greatest eSport it can, that will only get in the way.

If you could, state both the positives and negatives of the addition of new maps (even though maps are off-topic in this thread, it's a step in the right direction)

Upsides:

-More variety in terms of how players play the game, regardless of champions (ideally I would want the variety to lie within the 100+ champions, and not 3+ maps)

-Exploring possibilities for new genres--DotA wasn't WoW, but a modification made with its tools; LoL could potentially give birth to a new game if something happens and it catches on (although this is a bit risky and I wouldn't depend on chance for Riot's success and the creation of interesting, new content)

-People that wouldn't play Summoner's Rift might play LoL because of these new maps (although these could easily be made into different games with playable characters tailored specifically for it--allowing them to live up to Riot Games Inc.--I'm not saying that different kinds of game are a bad idea, but rather that they wouldn't fit in LoL or any future installments, and are thus off-topic and best left to a different thread)

Downsides:

-Pretty much everything I said, on top of the fact that it would spread developers thin, and the fact that it wouldn't be a good idea until Summoner's Rift is as fleshed out as it can be

If you could respond in this same format, that would be ideal. We should both be looking at both sides of things, and that articulation is what this thread has been missing up until now! From now on, this is the standard I shall hold myself to, regardless of whose points I am commenting on (although I'd prefer if it were on-topic).
Um, I didn't even say anything about maps in that post, but while your on the subject, go read every non riot post in this thread http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2449093

None of the points they made as why new maps would actually hurt the game ended up holding up. And I still don't know why Morello thinks I have such a sweet tooth, but that is one of the great mysteries of the world, like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop, which I will not be finding out at dinner, in case anyone was wondering, don't have the time to do that, nor do I even like tootsie pops well enough to attempt to try it.

And it was Guild Wars, not Counter Strike they used as a point of example. Why? Because using Counter Strike as an example would have been an argument in favor of new maps.

And by the way, how can I take it seriously that you wont reply to off topic posts if you are making them yourself? Because, again, I didn't even mention new maps in the post you quoted.


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Crunch Mcbutts

Junior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horasu View Post
Hello Itemsguy,

http://theitemsguy.tumblr.com/

This is your tumblr blog. I understand that you have recently sent in an application to League of Legends as a response to the growing momentum of this thread. While not exactly pertaining to the topics herein, what I'm about to say does relate to this thread as a whole.

In short, you are not fit to weigh in on champion design.

I would like to introduce to everyone here what your attitude is towards the whole situation. You are very stubborn in that your opinions (yes, opinions) are grounded facts. So much that anyone who disagrees with you is a "human shaped sack of **** with internet access." Take note, for every link, please read the tags for further information on Itemsguy's character.

Proof:
http://theitemsguy.tumblr.com/post/40963761142
http://theitemsguy.tumblr.com/post/41327708596

You are so set in your opinions that you have created an idealistic "me vs. them" world where your side are the crusaders of righteousness and everyone else are plebes who don't know any better since they're "full of ****." This delusion is so ingrained into your mind that when IronStylus weighed in on the topic, you proclaimed that he is a "useful ally in changing League of Legends." You don't enter a company expecting some employees to take your side while you fight the rest of the employees in the company. You just don't.

Proof: http://theitemsguy.tumblr.com/post/40884996095

Finally, you are so insistent on being this "crusader of righteousness that changes League of Legends" that when Morello stopped responding you even belittled his opinion derogatorily by saying he was avoiding your "facts" (opinions). Keep in mind this man has had years and years of champion design while you are merely a student in champion design with an idea. A very, very ingrained idea.

Proof: Deleted post.

In short, you belittle and humiliate people publicly on places that they can have no voice just because they have opinions different from your own opinions. You are so set on anti-teamwork behavior that anyone who agrees is an "ally in your crusade to change League" and anyone who isn't is a "sack of ****."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but being a Riot employee requires a sense of teamwork. It's about listening to the other side, considering their opinions adequately, and responding appropriately and, if they make a good point, adjust your opinions to match the new information on your hands.

You are quite the opposite. Riot doesn't need such a person on their team. I would go so far as to say your attitude towards others and yourself would poison the game if you were to touch it. Your delusion that you can objectively "change league to become a better game" is only further promoted by people that follow you WHO DON'T EVEN PLAY LEAGUE*. League of Legends does NOT need someone who scoffs at the work of hundreds of employees that put in thousands of man hours to make League into what it is today.

I hope the day never comes that you get hired by Riot. If you touch that game, you will ruin it. I also hope that, if a Riot employee reads this, that they consider my post when reviewing Itemsguy's application.

If you want to recreate a game, don't choose League of Legends. Make your own game.

*Final proof: http://theitemsguy.tumblr.com/post/41246632223

EDIT: I figured the posts would go... Missing. Luckily I have saved images which I have attached herein. It goes from top to down in order:

Alt links to proof:
http://imageshack.us/a/img542/9484/70678595.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img831/2516/26371797.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img338/6332/88773292.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img221/894/51243780.png
^


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YamiBelgarath

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Maybe - if we were making him today I think it would. It solves some of the issues of satisfaction Coronach and I worried about originally.
I like the burning field concept. It would make the pillar a lot strong in team fights- right now there exists a pretty high likelihood of it just being walked out of, the same way the Cho's Q gets walked around the majority of the time, at least by higher skill players. That could also make Conflagration go crazy.


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Maybe - if we were making him today I think it would. It solves some of the issues of satisfaction Coronach and I worried about originally.
Could you go into more depth on this, please? Would this be satisfaction in terms of fulfilling a role, or a more technical level of satisfaction, which is where you have the most experience (again, bringing up DotA as an example--heroes have very specific technical uses with high rewards when executed, like Batrider's tar-coating mechanic or Storm Spirit's ultimate)?

I'd like to tie this in with the whole "thematic unity helps make champions satisfying" (Rengar is really where I started loving LoL--I spent an entire bot game just jumping out of that top bush, and I still do just that every now and then; I'd say that's where the combination of well-developed and defined themes and technical juiciness come together to make something incredible, which is where my whole redesign project started in the first place), but you guys may have very different reasoning behind it--and I may be misinterpreting this game-feel joy (but I like to think this isn't the case as my first impression makes more concrete sense)!


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pokelda2

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Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I agree Tiny Toss and other mechanics like that do make skills more deep for sure. This is a decision we make only because the cost is the griefing potential or, worse, a player trying to help and instead of just failing, losing the game entirely. It's a tough decision overall, in my mind, because I think we all agree that these things are more interesting generally. Tresh's Lantern is actually a way we're trying to see how we add the type of gameplay without the issues.
I was playing dota 2 and got trolled by the bots, one of the bots on my team was tiny. he threw me into the enemy team and it got me killed while acomplishing nothing else.

So i think the griefing could definately be a problem because even the bots do it in dota 2!


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YamiBelgarath

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokelda2 View Post
I was playing dota 2 and got trolled by the bots, one of the bots on my team was tiny. he threw me into the enemy team and it got me killed while acomplishing nothing else.

So i think the griefing could definately be a problem because even the bots do it in dota 2!
Lol. I now wonder if that is a reason why there is no possibly friendly Singed bot...NO, STOP BEING HELPFUL lulz


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arechon Gend View Post
Um, I didn't even say anything about maps in that post, but while your on the subject, go read every non riot post in this thread http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2449093

None of the points they made as why new maps would actually hurt the game ended up holding up. And I still don't know why Morello thinks I have such a sweet tooth, but that is one of the great mysteries of the world, like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop, which I will not be finding out at dinner, in case anyone was wondering, don't have the time to do that, nor do I even like tootsie pops well enough to attempt to try it.

And it was Guild Wars, not Counter Strike they used as a point of example. Why? Because using Counter Strike as an example would have been an argument in favor of new maps.

And by the way, how can I take it seriously that you wont reply to off topic posts if you are making them yourself? Because, again, I didn't even mention new maps in the post you quoted.
I am probably confusing you for someone else, who was commenting about maps!

Anyway, I'll get to this and everything else tomorrow--I really need to go to bed (it's these early-morning classes, man!); I'll try to look at the points you make with a clearer head and hopefully we can reach something satisfactory. I will admit, I think I may have glazed over some of your posts (blurry eyes will do that), and for that I apologize!

Tomorrow I will look over everything you've said (although if you could make a post summarizing your points I would be really grateful), and give proper feedback on it. This is a thread for constructive discussion regarding game design (which is a treat on GD--I almost never see it outside of balance issues, real or imagined), and it will remain as such! Tomorrow is a new beginning!

EDIT:

Morning classes aside, it looks like tomorrow is going to be like Christmas--Morello's really getting busy!