@Tryndamere @Ryze @Zileas @Morello @Kitae Lore Writer Replacement

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Eserine

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Rabid Teemo View Post
Dude... you're insane. If the entire game was built solely on rules of the lore then the game would cease to exist given that gameplay and balance would take a backseat to lore.

If you want to read a book, go read a book. If you want to play a video game, don't complain that it's not a book.
I disagree, if a writer or group of writers is creative and thorough enough to worldbuild properly then all gameplay or balance can be accounted-for within any lore without deferring to extreme plotholes or disconnects lacking referential context (the 2014 Homestuck game based on the webcomic being good example). Even without "perfect lore coverage" however better writers could notice game elements like the Halloween-map Ghost Urf and think "Hmmmmmm, we should probably relate this observable phenomenon to ghost champions we might make later or we may be left with a gallimaufry!"


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Eserine

Senior Member

01-17-2013

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Originally Posted by Flying Eggplant View Post
I ****ing hate you for creating an extremely eloquent and engaging thread that I have spent far too much of my night on (obviously not *this* one. The one you linked to). I'm going to get off these forums and be productive again but a bump for you, good sir. A bump for you.
Thank you Flying Eggplant, good luck with your productivity!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiver View Post
Are you aware that several of the people you @'ed are lore writers?
Yes, I have no wish to blind-side anyone, so even though I'm aware that they (and unfortunately many other developers) never respond to any form of 'negative' criticism, they should at least be aware that I am calling once again for their termination to give them a fair chance to defend themselves (although it's certainly questionable whether they actually read or scan the forums much since they almost never post under their usernames).

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHOTFTOOKMYNAME View Post
I apologize ahead of time as I couldn't bring myself to read through the entire thing at this late hour, but I have to say the whole thing... is a bit painful to read through. Though I appreciate that you aren't talking "roit pls" idiot speak, there is a certain degree of weariness that one gathers while reading a long and, while it might not be the right description for it, "overly-eloquent" argument. It seems the parts I did manage to keep my eyes on seem a bit too nit-picky to be practical in the game environment. However, many of the lore aspects I do see as very lacking, and I promise to take another look at this when I'm more awake. Apologies if I misrepresented you at all.
Not at all WHOTFTOOKMYNAME, thank you very much. I agree that this thread is tiresome which is why I created the dotted-line partition for those readers from Riot who might be wholly convinced by the podcast excerpt I directed them to and warned of "belaborment". I seek only to draw attention to the broken and ill-crafted aspects of the lore as the cracks continue to grow in the narrative bulwark.


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Miss Alaineus

Member

01-17-2013

OP totally looks like...

http://kimberlyroots2009.files.wordp...c-book-guy.jpg


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Grandpappy

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Man, you could've cured cancer or some **** if you had decided to use your powers for good.


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Eserine

Senior Member

01-17-2013

While IronStylus did not respond to this thread he did take the time to answer a different thread from a lore apologist an hour later who wished to discuss "creative packaging" of different champions, which in a way I guess might be considered a passive-aggressive or innocently indirect response

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...1#post33572421

Did you know that Kitae doesn't believe that champions should be imprisoned by the League against their will? The entire Syndra conceit of this poster is impossible for the very reasons I feel that she should be fired!

As we have talked about in this thread previously, lore elements of a package seem to come last in priority (or made early with the design, and then ignored in terms of later additions to champion characteristics over a variety of mediums). Lore would never mention distinctive features of a champion that weren't included in the earliest forms of concept art, because the lore itself for any champion is just a piece of unrefined concept art, with no account given to previous design aspects of other constructs in the gameworld or later features. Why does Graves have a unique interaction with Nocturne and not Twisted Fate? The lore has no "reach" because the lore writers play down its importance.


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Eserine

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by A SPRIGHTLY DOLL View Post
Nope!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpappy View Post
Man, you could've cured cancer or some **** if you had decided to use your powers for good.
Well actually...

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-0...alzheimer.html


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ArmySquirrel

Senior Member

01-17-2013

I'm afraid rule of cool overrides the need to put a meticulous, scientifically constructed and internally consistent magic system in place. Also not being given an explanation is not the same as "an explanation does not exist". Take the magic with a fair amount of suspension of disbelief. You don't need everything explained to know that it can happen.

It is possible to make a game that is balanced and internally consistent with a deep, rich lore that's been well thought out and meticulously designed with the creative detail of the Lord of the Rings or A Song of Ice and Fire, but currently in League of Legends that's immaterial to its present business model and its genre. Lore and story is not what makes most of its money, an entertaining game where all manner of players can come to test their skills in a team-based battle for an objective is what makes most of the money.

If they get a cool idea for a new champion, they're not even going to want a lore team to tell them "You can't do that, it contradicts X, Y, and Z." Besides, any creative mind can get around the perceived holes. The holes you bring up aren't even "This is wrong", they're questions that you just want answered. To be honest, you're grasping at threads and making me wonder how seriously you really are about this. Stuff like "Vi is a fierce fighter determined to punch criminals in the face. Why would she punch Lulu, Annie, or Amumu in the face?" or "Wouldn't Thresh answer to Mordekaiser's commands on the field even if on the opposing team even with a summoner merged with his mind?" just makes me hit my head on my desk.

They're participating in an arena based competition in a league called the League of Legends. This is what they came to do, or what they MUST do in some cases like Nocturne. It is, BY LORE, essentially a competitive sport, though often with much higher stakes than what a modern competitive sport would have, but like any competitive sport it has rules, it has referees (the Institute of War), it is not a mindless battleground, or a war. So the questions like "Why would she punch someone like Annie in the face?!" or "Why doesn't Mordekaiser tell Thresh to do what he wants so he can win?!" are pretty damn easy to explain. Why? Well what happens in real world sports? You either get benched or disqualified because it's unsportsmanlike, or worse if it's conspiring to throw a game. If I played defensive line for one team and my little brother played quarterback for another team and our teams were to have a contest I would be obliged to plaster my brother across the field if I had the opportunity. By your analysis this would constitute a lore problem, because why would I hurt my own brother? Anyone with a lick of sports sense should know the answer to that.

Hell, read Leona's lore and ask why she could attack or even kill Annie. Answer: She probably doesn't enjoy it, but Annie certainly isn't going to pull any punches, and it is nonetheless the expectation. Annie certainly doesn't seem to have any problems with this, and while that may be a sign of her questionable mental sanity, that's something that needs to be looked at outside of a match. Acting out in a match probably isn't going to turn out well, given the Institute of War, by lore, is REALLY INSANELY FREAKING POWERFUL. Presumably all champions accepted this when they went in. If they were to suddenly question it and disrupt a League match themselves, it would likely cause quite a stir and get themselves suspended. Many of them are there to represent what they stand for, be it strength, glory, honor, or something else.

Key point in all this: Institute of War, really insanely powerful. Champions can do some pretty impressive stuff. Some can screw up vision, taunts, charms, etc. Chances are that the summoner does a fair bit more on his or her own that isn't related to gameplay.

Essentially you're asking what are the rules of the League of Legends that the engine attempts to enforce? Obviously it grants quite some freedom, but there are likely various rules that still apply, but apply equally to all champions, unlike the incident of Jax getting special restrictions.

Did I also mention money? Hiring a big lore team is a big money sink to appease people with. Were this an RPG, yeah, you really would need that kind of system, and the more thought out the better, but this is a MOBA. We're not playing Dungeons and Dragons here. The game itself can go as it has been. Lore can still exist outside of it.


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Miss Alaineus

Member

01-17-2013

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Originally Posted by Eserine View Post
Nope!

Shhhhhh don't ruin my fun ;P


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Dig Dux

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Real lore < selling skins


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king wiggles47

Senior Member

01-17-2013

it seems a lot like your just nitpicking...