Crystaline Flask

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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

01-16-2013

The price increase is excessive, and cuts down starting item options too far. I would recommend lowering the price by just 20 gold (325 from 345, old 225), while possibly cutting the duration to 11 seconds (110 health, 55 mana) if you feel it needs nerfs. Let's look at some scenarios of starting items:

Dominion: boots + tear + flask would be brought down to 1375, the exact amount of starting gold without the wealth mastery.

Summoner's Rift: flask + 2 wards would take the full 475 without wealth.

Dominion: boots + cloth armor + flask + null magic mantle/long sword/dagger/brawler's gloves would also be perfect at 1375.

325 just makes more sense as a rounded cost for a starting item. If you have to nerf the regen to make this change, so be it, but please consider adjusting it to allow for more starting builds.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Any other thoughts? I doubt they would want to force people to take wealth for this, it's not really a support item, and wealth is way too far down that tree. The only alternative would be swapping wealth and greed's order on the tree to allow 21/0/9 or 0/21/9 to grab that 1 point to afford this, but the item itself synergizes more with 21/9/0 or 9/21/0.


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MalCrescent

Junior Member

01-17-2013

I don't see a problem with it:

The original flask saved you 36g for each charge.
Current one right now saves you 49g for each charge, after a total of 9.3 charges it'll actually save you more money than the original flask.

They wanted to force people to not be excessive by buying flask and getting a ****load of red pots later just to outsustain their opponent, which was really annoying since most lanes used it anyway. They simply compensated with it being a more potent substitute to just pots and gives you a better long term investment.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

01-17-2013

But you can't afford it as a starting item anymore. I don't care if they nerf the stats on it, it needs to be lowered to 325 to actually fit into starting builds.

Also, there was an unreleased change in the last patch, active stacks disappear in base now. You used to be able to go out with 5 stacks active, and have your first 50 seconds of regeneration for free. This change is ok, but it is an undocumented nerf nonetheless.


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MalCrescent

Junior Member

01-17-2013

I'm still using it as a decent starting item, the charges feel like actual pots to me now, and I get to carry a ward still w/ 2 additional pots.

I felt w/ the old flask, what was excessive to me was getting away with getting so many items with it.
Ex: Flask, fairy Charm, ward, pots, etc..or like an unlimited sustainable sololane.

It was a ridiculously good start, and I still think it's a good starting item. All it is to me now is alternatives rather than my primary preference.

Doesn't sound like a nerf on the last part, sounds like an abusable bug.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

01-17-2013

The problem is, it's not affordable as a starting item anymore. It's 20 more than would fit into a starting build. Boots + tear + flask is just about mandatory for bot lane, but now you have to go b after the first cap to pick it up. Boots + cloth + mantle + flask is the go-to tank start if you plan on aegis/bulwark, but now you have to drop an item.


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FreeGothitelle

Senior Member

01-17-2013

It really is too expensive to start with now, and even at first back it's generally too late to use it with enough effectiveness.


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Qsario

Senior Member

01-18-2013

If they really want to change things around, why not change regular potions to cost a tiny bit more (but not be easily stackable)? I agree that it's harder to fit into a starting support build now.

Two wards just isn't enough :-/