Which champions should get minor tweaks for Dominion?

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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorUrsa View Post
This isn't SR. You stop fighting and you lose a cap. You give up the advantage. APs are doing much better then they were previously, part of that is the re itemizing of Dominions AP items, and part of that is that they are able to compete by having access to their spells when and how often they need them.
No **** sherlock, that is the point. You all complain about spammy champions being overpowered because they have inf mana yet you want them nerfed because they have inf mana. Champions need to run out of mana so fights actually end instead of being a contest of "who can spam more". You waste all your mana in a fight and do little damage and the other team uses theirs wisely, which side should win that fight?

Yes there needs to be more mana to play with in Dominion but that doesn't mean it should never run out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreampod View Post
Really, a better solution to the mana issue is to increase the amount the aura causes you to regenerate but set it to 'out of combat' only.
Something I have said several times now across several months in several threads including this one. Champions need to run out of mana in combat, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to recover their mana between fights. Eve's passive is a perfect example of how the aura should work.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreampod View Post
Really, a better solution to the mana issue is to increase the amount the aura causes you to regenerate but set it to 'out of combat' only. That neuters Kass by forcing him to stop teleporting around to get that regen
I don't see how this stops Kass really, as "in combat" refers to being damaged or dealing damage, so his high mobility is still an issue as he can warp around while still having huge mana regen.

Quote:
gives manaless champions a solid role during sieges (keep enemies in combat with harass so you can exhaust their mana while you team recouperates theirs)
This gives a shakey-at-best role to manaless champs, and only to a select few(Vlad, Kat, Mundo, Zed, Kennen, maybe Rumble, maybe Morde). Sieges are in general a bad idea for the same reason tower diving in SR is a bad idea. Towers and Points give a huge damage advantage. Not to mention that in Dominion you are on a clock. Go elsewhere and draw them off the point.

Anyway, Vlad could use some love. Maybe reduce his HP costs with the Aura. I'm like the only player who uses him, but i would like to see more Vlads :/


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
I don't see how this stops Kass really, as "in combat" refers to being damaged or dealing damage, so his high mobility is still an issue as he can warp around while still having huge mana regen.
Which is why I use Eves passive as an example as how it should function where the regen would break on spell use/combat (Thus kassadin would not get the regen running round the map spamming R, he'd have to stop spamming R for the aura to kick in). If the aura worked this way it could potentially solve allot of problems (especially kassadin) in one fell swoop.


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Palladine

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Here's my list:

Kassadin: Ability to jump over walls reduced, jump cooldown increased
Kha'zix: Abillity to jump over walls reduced, internal cooldown on jump reset (only 1/2 resets per 15 seconds)
Ezreal: Jump cooldown increased

Jayce: Innate survivability decreased
Jax: AP/AD Ratio reduction, innate survivability decreased

Nasus/Veigar: Maybe tie their scaling power on unit kill to include a larger boost for kills or assists?
Syndra: Base survivability increased
Swain: Increased passive effect on kills or assists

This is probably fairly controversial, but I think armor/magic penetration is too high across the board right now, and reducing this could fix a lot of problems out there right now. The issue is it just doesn't seem worth it to play champions who depend on building lots of defensive items, because the worth of those items is severely degraded by the prevalence of high values of both flat and percentage penetration.

Defenses built on champions like feel lackluster right now.

It seems to me like champions who have survivability already baked in to their base stats (Jayce, Zix) or their kit (Jax) are far stronger than champions who build defensive items as part of their core, such as Ryze or Warwick.

I'd reduce the amount of flat and percentage penetration on Black Cleaver, Blackfire Torch, Last Whisper and Void Staff. Maybe to 10 flat/25 percentage, respectively, or something, and slightly increase the AD/AP stat on those items.

Also, it might be worth looking at to change the passive on Blackfire Torch to deal damage based on the AP of the user, rather than the health of the target.

I think this stems from Torch being fairly difficult to counter by the traditional methods to counter large amounts of magic damage in Dominion:

1. Build MR

2. Build HP

3. Kill the champion generating the damage

All three of these are made difficult with the way Torch is right now, compounded with which champions are using Torch. MR is heavily mitigated by penetration, HP is mitigated because the Torch's damage scales with your maximum health and not the statistics of the champion attacking you.

Killing the champion is often made difficult because Torch is often being built on tanky-by-default champions (Amumu, Singed, Rumble) who use it as a large passive damage source, just by turning on their aura/AOE and being near your champion.


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Kholdstare13

Senior Member

01-17-2013

For minion-related QoL, here are my thoughts.

Looking forward to the dominion variant of tear, but what if we gave it a passive time-based stacking instead of a pure stronger stack? Nid and Singed can force one up quickly enough, perhaps if we gave half a stack (2 mana) every time the tear filled its cooldown timer for "can earn mana" stacks while already full? (4 mana when you do use skills, 2 mana when you don't)?

Anyway, for specific champions, I think all minion-based effects could use an increase.
Ashe and GP could use extra gold on hawkshot and parrrley, as well as TF's passive and avarice blade.
Caitlyn could use some passive headshot stack generation (for those skirting poke war moments)
Cho'Gath needs an improved feast mechanic (lose 1/3 stacks? double stacks for champions?)
Nasus and Veigar would love increased Q stacking, as would Sion's E.
Morde isn't bad, but a little bit of extra shield when he does hit minions would be ok. (50% vs dom minions?)
Nunu's consume is fine as-is.
Most other abilities with varying heal-on-minion vs champion could use some form of boost against minions, such as Renekton's Q, and Irelia and Swain's R. Healing vs champions is ok, but the scarcity of minions leaves the minion ratios underwhelming.
Finally, Varus' passive duration after killing a minion might be extended.

Also, could you increase the detection range and update frequency on the minions' behavior? It seems every bruiser with a gap closer can leap a huge minion wave onto the enemy bot laner, and the minions will all refuse to turn around and aggro them.


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Talith PA

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreampod View Post
Really, a better solution to the mana issue is to increase the amount the aura causes you to regenerate but set it to 'out of combat' only. That neuters Kass by forcing him to stop teleporting around to get that regen, gives manaless champions a solid role during sieges (keep enemies in combat with harass so you can exhaust their mana while you team recouperates theirs), and means buying a mana item isn't a waste because it increases the length you can do a single engagement. I think this style of change would create better gameplay by giving solid reasons for engage/disengage rather than the smash your face towards the enemy until one side dies play that is often seen.
Kass isn't considered in-combat until he takes or causes an aggressive action. Rift walking doesn't count unless he goomba stomps someone or lands on a trap or something. It's why you can run boots 5 on Sona and spam your spells to fill a tear and still have the boots 5 passive while doing it. Also, Nidalee and pounce is the same.


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MMKH

Senior Member

01-17-2013

How about look at the most underplayed champs and tweaking them first. Or tweaking usual bot lane-specific champs so that they could be played top lane, and vice-versa. For example, Nasus, Yorick and Morde are bot laners but are not as viable as most champs when played top lane.


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Travistyse

Senior Member

01-17-2013

Well.. Not sure on the specifics, but I'm assuming this is JUST for dominion, and not like champion tweaks that'll effect other game types, but I've noticed that champions like Nocturne, Ahri, And others who really on a strong synergizing ultimate that's also tied to a long cooldown don't play too well on Dominion, and if there was some way to help those champions out while not making someone like Ryze or Mundo outright ridiculous, that would be amazing. Making Cooldown reduction cheaper on dom is an option.. So is making an Aura for specific champions with said cooldowns.. Maybe make it specifically for their ultimates, but that would require some extra work.. Nasus and Chogath also rely on events that Dominion naturally doesn't foster.


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ZallKlos

Senior Member

01-17-2013

CDR itemization for manaless mages like Vlad, Kat, Kennen, Rumble, Morde
Grail and Torch have mp5, Frozen Fist has mana.


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marziparzi

Junior Member

01-18-2013

man. this makes me realize how much work it would be put in to fix every champion to fit into dominion. Makes me think that future champion releases should have 2 versions released with slightly different spells: one for SR and TT, and another for dominion.