Need advice on Udyr items.

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Wolfaen

Member

01-16-2013

I'm looking for some guidance on Udyr. The way I like to play Udyr is maxing pheonix stance first and having high mobility + AS + Tank. Mobility boots is always my first buy because having that increased movement speed early in the game surprises people and usually results in many successful ganks. I can also move from lane to lane extremely quickly. Then I move onto Philo Stone, and Sightstone(typically). The rest depends on their team, but standard items are wit's end, frozen heart, and warmogs.

My question is about Iceborn guantlets and Zephyr. I'm considering trading out frozen heart for Iceborn guantlets and wit's end for Zephyr. The reason I see this being beneficial is because Iceborn guantlets has the AOE slow built in on activated abilites. Udyr is a ability spammer and this slow could be extremely useful in team fights. This item still give armor, mana, CDR, and some AP on top of all that as well. Zephyr seems like a good trade for wits end, mainly because the stats seem more beneficial for Udyr unless the team you are going against is extremely AP heavy. Zephyr gives more AS, Movement speed, CDR, AD, and the best, tenacity. I do not buy merc treads so this would be a big benefit.

The downfall of these items is that I lose out on some defensive resistances, but gain more offensive power. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this to see if yall think the gains outweigh the loses.


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Morgosm

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Junior Member

01-16-2013

Dont use udyr, he can be easiley kite now a days


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TeknoWizard

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Okay, first off, I like what you're thinking early. Mobility Boots, (Yellow move5 ones right? Bad with names :S), are the ones I've been enjoying the most. Allows you to freaking Blitzkreig into lanes with Bear Stance. Definitely keep those.

Now, actual questions.

-Frozen Heart vs. Iceborn Gauntlets?
I'm going to recommend Frozen Heart for a few important reasons. First, Udyr is generally going to just need to be a tank by the time you could afford these without rushing them first, which is hardly ideal. And Frozen Heart is going to make you markedly tankier than Iceborn. Secondly, you don't really need the almost negligable damage boost Iceborn provides. The Frozen Heart passive is going to benefit you WAY more. Thirdly, you don't need the added CC. You have a spammable stun, and if you pick up a Phage, you need zero help sticking to people. Then again, if you need to go a more carry-oriented Udyr, Iceborn could work there. But even then, a Triforce, to make use of a Sheen, would still be better suited for that.

-Zephyr or Wit's End?
Haven't thought much on this, so pure theory right now. Against a heavy AP team, for sure look to grab the Wit's. If they have a more CC oriented team, or one with strong peeling, just go for the Zephyr.

And a bit of criticism on your build in general. I would recommend going straight for an Aegis after finishing up the Philo Stone, and just skipping the Sightstone. By purchasing an Aegis, you'll be supporting your team just as much if you were to keep spamming wards. And if you build the Wriggle's, you can still have a ward in your back pocket without buying them individually. Most games, my build goes like this:

-Machete (Obviously)
-1st back, either Move5 boots right off the bat, or T1 boots, and Madred's. Ward if I can.
-2nd back, finish Move5 boots, or grab Madred's and Philo Stone. For sure, two wards.
-3rd back, finish Wriggle's and grab Emblem of Valor. Ruby Crystal if I gots the gold. More wardsss.
-4th back, finish up the Aegis. Situational from there on. Generally a Phage if I need damage, or go for Warmog's if I need damage.

But my build is a bit skewed as I've been picking up Tiger Udyr this season. So my damage is rather inate, and doesn't require the items that Pheonix Udyr does. You should try it.


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Valeor

Member

01-16-2013

I love how everyone thinks phoenix does no damage compared to tiger. Also there is no real need for wriggles


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TeknoWizard

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valeor View Post
I love how everyone thinks phoenix does no damage compared to tiger. Also there is no real need for wriggles
Well, it's not that Pheonix does no damage compared to it. But when looking at single target, Tiger just does do more damage outright. And I like doing early dragons, and the Wriggle's helps a bunch in that regard.


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Wolfaen

Member

01-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeknoWizard View Post
Okay, first off, I like what you're thinking early. Mobility Boots, (Yellow move5 ones right? Bad with names :S), are the ones I've been enjoying the most. Allows you to freaking Blitzkreig into lanes with Bear Stance. Definitely keep those.

Now, actual questions.

-Frozen Heart vs. Iceborn Gauntlets?
I'm going to recommend Frozen Heart for a few important reasons. First, Udyr is generally going to just need to be a tank by the time you could afford these without rushing them first, which is hardly ideal. And Frozen Heart is going to make you markedly tankier than Iceborn. Secondly, you don't really need the almost negligable damage boost Iceborn provides. The Frozen Heart passive is going to benefit you WAY more. Thirdly, you don't need the added CC. You have a spammable stun, and if you pick up a Phage, you need zero help sticking to people. Then again, if you need to go a more carry-oriented Udyr, Iceborn could work there. But even then, a Triforce, to make use of a Sheen, would still be better suited for that.

-Zephyr or Wit's End?
Haven't thought much on this, so pure theory right now. Against a heavy AP team, for sure look to grab the Wit's. If they have a more CC oriented team, or one with strong peeling, just go for the Zephyr.

And a bit of criticism on your build in general. I would recommend going straight for an Aegis after finishing up the Philo Stone, and just skipping the Sightstone. By purchasing an Aegis, you'll be supporting your team just as much if you were to keep spamming wards. And if you build the Wriggle's, you can still have a ward in your back pocket without buying them individually. Most games, my build goes like this:

-Machete (Obviously)
-1st back, either Move5 boots right off the bat, or T1 boots, and Madred's. Ward if I can.
-2nd back, finish Move5 boots, or grab Madred's and Philo Stone. For sure, two wards.
-3rd back, finish Wriggle's and grab Emblem of Valor. Ruby Crystal if I gots the gold. More wardsss.
-4th back, finish up the Aegis. Situational from there on. Generally a Phage if I need damage, or go for Warmog's if I need damage.

But my build is a bit skewed as I've been picking up Tiger Udyr this season. So my damage is rather inate, and doesn't require the items that Pheonix Udyr does. You should try it.
Firstly, thank you for your response! On frozen heart, I was thinking I would definitely build this if I was the main tank on a team. However, if I am a off-tank/bruiser I can see the AOE slow helping tremendously in team fights(I need to test this tonight). That is even ontop of my bear stance stuns. I would be able to peel so easily and efficiently for my carries allowing them to kite the hell out of the other teams assassins/bruisers. Udyr, I think, is meant to be used as more of a support/tank jungle and I can see this item working really well with that role. You may be correct about it not being cost efficient. It would be my fourth item in most cases, I just need to test and see.

I agree with you on Zephyr and Wit's End. Those would be situational depending on the team.

On Aegis, I also agree that this is a great item on Udyr however, 98% of my ranked games the support picks Aegis up as their first item. So I just skip this item to avoid overlapping unique auras and pick up a sightstone for increased map vision because at my elo ~1300 people do not ward, or ward very little.

I do not agree with you on wriggles. Other than faster clear times/dragons(Udyr is naturally fast at), the stats on wriggles don't really benefit Udyr for the cost. I really don't like any items that build from machete on Udyr so I just end up selling it when I need slots in my inventory.

Also, what do you build phage into? Trinity Force? Thats a hugely expensive item for a jungler. What item order do you get the phage and do you build it into trinity right away?


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Wolfaen

Member

01-18-2013

Any other thoughts on this??


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LarcyBrown

Senior Member

01-18-2013

i dun play udyr but best one i seen where the ones focusing on defense and sustain and multiple stuns first then on offense.